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what should i buy?

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jackh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: what should i buy?
    Posted: December/16/2008 at 18:22
i know its such a noob question but here it goes...
 
i recently bought an armalite ar15 with an armalite 6.8 spc upper. im gonna use this for mild long range plinking and lots of deer/hog hunting.
 
ive been told a 3-9 would be sufficient for hunting but id like atleast a 4-12 for some extra power when i need it. ive looked into lots of brands but i dont wanna spend more than $450. ive narrowed it down to these:
 
Nikon 4-16x42 monarch- $449
Nikon 4.5-14x40 buckmaster- $299
Bushnell 5-15x40 elite 3200 w/ fire fly reticle- $314
Bushnell 4-12x40 elite 3200 w/ multi x reticle- $269
 
i REALLY like the BDC reticles on some of the nikons. the bushnell 5-15 is pushing my power limit cuz i dont want to lose light fast since i hunt a lot of mornings/evenings. quality glass is important in my buy, but i have a pretty low price limit :(
 
im a total noob that just wants a quality scope for my purposes. i was referred here from another forum b/c this is the place to learn about optics. any comments/suggestions are welcome. thanks a ton
 
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lucytuma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2008 at 18:47
Even though I think your over scopeing this rifle, I would recommend the Nikon Monarch.  It is the most expensive, but it is the best of the bunch listed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2008 at 19:19
I agree with lucytuma!
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2008 at 19:20
Monarch all the way 
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jackh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2008 at 23:01
so yall suggest a 3-9 over a 4-12 for this gun or what? i really like the team primos editions but those are last years line so ive been told. should i bother looking into them or just look into a new monarch in 3-9? do they have one in 50mm? can i get a sunshade for it?
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ccoker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2008 at 23:15
Hey Jackh,
I am the guy from the 6.8 forum who pointed you here.
glad to see you made it
as for power, really boils down to what you are doing with it
if you want to shoot tiny groups at 300 yards, yes, lots of magnification is good
however, lower low end power is better for hunting

the Team Primos is a good deal

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Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 00:33
Im not sure why you are not comparing the 4-16x42 Monarch to the 4-16x40 Bushnell 4200 that would be a better comparison and I think I like the 4200 better but its a close call.
 
Also for you 6.8spc guys if you want hi cap mags there are some at mid way usa.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - December/17/2008 at 00:35

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ccoker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 07:32
if you are looking at it for target work, have you had a chance to really had a chance to test it for how small of groups you can get?

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jackh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 16:16
ya i recognized the name ccoker, thanks for pointing me here.
 
how is the Bushnell 4-16x40 Elite 4200 better than the Nikon 4-16x42 Monarch? i had looked at them both and i had chosen the monarch b/c of the BDC reticle to be honest with you. heres the specs on both from swfa:
 

Bushnell 4-16x40 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope

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Specifications
Weight (oz): 18.6


Multi-X

Length (in): 14.4
Eye Relief (in): 3.5
Field of View @ 100yds (ft): 26 - 7
Exit Pupil (mm): 25 - 10
MOA: 1/8
Lens Coating: Fully Multi-Coated
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Side Focus Range (yds): 25 - infinity
 

Nikon 4-16x42 Monarch Riflescope

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Specifications
Weight (oz): 18


BDC

Length (in): 13.5
Eye Relief (in): 4 - 3.7
Field of View @ 100 yards (ft): 25.2 - 6.3
Exit Pupil (mm): 2.6
MOA: 1/4
Parallax Setting (yds): 50 - infinity

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 16:18
they are both good, given your situation i would probably take the nikon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 17:06
I don't care for Nikons BDC reticle,  don't like the little circles, just my opinion
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jackh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 17:15
what style site would you take over the BDC? i just like that it has a place for you to line up at 200 yds on out so theres no guessing like aiming a foot over the shoulder for instance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 17:20
the bdc doesnt bother you after a couple of range sessions you wont even know its there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 17:27
++.  Shoot with it a bit, you'll love it.  Like anything else, it requires practice to become accustomed to it, once you get there, you'll never look back.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 17:31
I had a Monarch (3-12) with the BDC and didn't like it hunting when trying to shoot in between the ranges, say at 250

with a regular reticle and the 6.8, just set it dead on at 200, you will be about 1.5 high at 100 and dead on at 50

how oftern are you really going to be shooting at 300-400?
out to 250, just put the crosshairs on it squeeze the trigger, game over
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jackh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 17:49
im not sure i get what your saying... if its set dead on at 200, 1.5 inches high as 100, how will it be dead on at 50? wouldn't it be like 3 inches high? 
 
and i have no idea how often ill be shoting 300-400, but if i decide to the BDC will be useful. plus if i ever get a light tactical bold gun i could throw this on there, maybe change to a less powerful scope on the 6.8. make the bolt my target/deer rifle, 6.8 would be targets/varmits/beer cans sh*t idk. i think its to each his own on how well the BDCs liked.
 
are our 6.8s pretty flat shooting guns? whats it effective out to?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 18:05
http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx
BDC reticles are wonderful as long as you can stand shooting only at the highest power. The problem comes when you take a 4-16x40mm scope and dial the power down as it gets dark to brighten up the image.  40mm divided by 7mm exit eye pupil (bright) puts you down at 5.7 power lets say 6x  so now we have those nifty marks on the BDC in the second focal plane and while  X is 100 or 200 which ever you chose, those BDC marks do not in any way represent where the bullet will hit at 300, 400, 500  it is a sure miss using them because as the scope power decreases from 16x back to the 6x the field of view increased so since the reticle stayed the same the marks represent nothing.  Alternatively take a duplex and use the finger adjustablet target style knobs zero at 200 and see how many clicks up 300 is and 400 is write a note on the inside of the flip up lens cap and you know  EX: add +3moa (use balistic calculator for the correct amount)  for 300 yd  or + 8.5 moa for 400yds.  You can do this with either the Nikon or the Bushnell  just realize you need to dial in correction and use the center crosshairs when not using the max power with the BDC.  The only thing I really dont like about the Bushnell is the clicks are 1/8moa which makes 8 clicks to the inch at 100 yds,  I'd rather have 1/4moa but I like the B glass really well and the rainguard lens coating is very nice plus you get the free jacket so I could live with 1/8 moa.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - December/17/2008 at 18:10

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 18:23
I have a friend who bought that scope with the Firefly and doesn't like it, the reticle is MUCH THICKER than the standard reticules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 19:44
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx
BDC reticles are wonderful as long as you can stand shooting only at the highest power. The problem comes when you take a 4-16x40mm scope and dial the power down as it gets dark to brighten up the image.  40mm divided by 7mm exit eye pupil (bright) puts you down at 5.7 power lets say 6x  so now we have those nifty marks on the BDC in the second focal plane and while  X is 100 or 200 which ever you chose, those BDC marks do not in any way represent where the bullet will hit at 300, 400, 500  it is a sure miss using them because as the scope power decreases from 16x back to the 6x the field of view increased so since the reticle stayed the same the marks represent nothing.  Alternatively take a duplex and use the finger adjustablet target style knobs zero at 200 and see how many clicks up 300 is and 400 is write a note on the inside of the flip up lens cap and you know  EX: add +3moa (use balistic calculator for the correct amount)  for 300 yd  or + 8.5 moa for 400yds.  You can do this with either the Nikon or the Bushnell  just realize you need to dial in correction and use the center crosshairs when not using the max power with the BDC.  The only thing I really dont like about the Bushnell is the clicks are 1/8moa which makes 8 clicks to the inch at 100 yds,  I'd rather have 1/4moa but I like the B glass really well and the rainguard lens coating is very nice plus you get the free jacket so I could live with 1/8 moa.
 
wow thats a very good explanation, i did not know any of that. so the BDC reticle is only useful when the scopes powered all the way up? ill see what else i can get. should i look into the 3200 or 4200s? whats the difference between the two? the rainguard would certainly be handy. im liking the idea of a tactical style scope that i can dial easily for different distances. should i look into a millet? im just shooting ideas around here, help would be greatly appreciated
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jackh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2008 at 05:07
i think im starting to change my mind. id like to throw a decent 3-9 on my 6.8 and save the money for a larger scope once i get a long range bolt gun. lookin into that sniper central entry level package. its a super good deal. id add camo and probably that 3200 5-15 on it too, call it done.
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