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Nightforce glass vs. Zeiss & Swarovski

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Mike VS View Drop Down
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    Posted: December/16/2008 at 16:52
I was wondering if anyone can provide feedback on how Nightforce glass compares to the Ziess Diavari's and Swarovski PH's and Z6's?  Is Nightforce close or not even in the same ballpark from a glass quality (brightness, clarity, distrotion) standpoint? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2008 at 17:57
Welcome to OT, Mike!
 
I have all of the above except the Swaro Z6.  Nightforce glass is quite good in my opinion, but not in the same class as Zeiss & Swaro.  IMO, and others will likely disagree, it's really not that far behind, when you consider the power range and compare directly to the Euro glass of similar power range.  Most of NF scopes are high magnification variables, and higher magnification amplifies any optical aberrations.  Beyond a certain quality level, you don't gain a huge improvement in optical performance relative to the increase in cost.  No doubt that Zeiss Diavari and Swaro are better, though.  NF glass compares favorably to the Zeiss Conquest, though.


Edited by RifleDude - December/16/2008 at 17:58
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2008 at 18:10
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Welcome to OT, Mike!
 
I have all of the above except the Swaro Z6.  Nightforce glass is quite good in my opinion, but not in the same class as Zeiss & Swaro.  IMO, and others will likely disagree, it's really not that far behind, when you consider the power range and compare directly to the Euro glass of similar power range.  Most of NF scopes are high magnification variables, and higher magnification amplifies any optical aberrations.  Beyond a certain quality level, you don't gain a huge improvement in optical performance relative to the increase in cost.  No doubt that Zeiss Diavari and Swaro are better, though.  NF glass compares favorably to the Zeiss Conquest, though.
 
Welcome to the OT Mike.  Ted better get with the program with a Z6.  You have a boatload of cash there Ted, and you are probably just waiting for the right rifle?Big Grin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 13:59
Originally posted by Mojo Mojo wrote:

  You have a boatload of cash there Ted...
 
Really?!!!  Where?!!!Loco
 
 
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 14:17
yeah ted you should put a new z6 on your (cough cough) .338fed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 15:56
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

yeah ted you should put a new z6 on your (cough cough) .338fed
 
What... (cough, cough) are you talking about?
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 15:57
Big Grin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 16:10
oh uh cough cough i was thinking of somebody else my bad!Top Secret
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2008 at 19:26
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Mojo Mojo wrote:

  You have a boatload of cash there Ted...
 
Really?!!!  Where?!!!Loco
 
 
 
Thought that it was you for sure that snapped up that Z6 that Chris had on sale!
MOJO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2008 at 18:54
Night Force lens are made in Japan with glass comparable to the Nikon Monarch Gold.Of course its good but not in the same league as Zeiss or the Swaro.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2008 at 20:56
Originally posted by hunter12345 hunter12345 wrote:

Night Force lens are made in Japan with glass comparable to the Nikon Monarch Gold.Of course its good but not in the same league as Zeiss or the Swaro.



The glass is Japanese, but far superior, in my opinion, to anything Nikon makes.


Nightforce (not F1 series)has good glass, their real value is in durability and repeatability.  Their glass is not as good as the best Zeiss and Swaro, but still very good.

I've owned Nikon Monarch and looked through the new Monarch Golds, to say Nightforce is comparable means you looked through a crap Nightforce or an amazing Monarch.

Glass-wise, Nightforce's older stuff (or non-F1) isn't in the same category with best Swaro and Zeiss, I'd say it is in with IOR (but with much better internals than IOR.)

Nightforce makes a damn fine scope, very durable, good glass, and great internals. Also, their reticle selection is fantastic.

The only negatives to Nightforce:
1.  Theya re not sold by SWFA - this is a big deal, Chris takes care of his custoemrs.
2.  The illumination system is good, but a real pain to change.
3.  As you change power, the entire ocular spins, putting the button on your Butler Creek in different places depending on power.

Just FYI.  Even with these, I've bought Nightforce and will by again!

Now, the F1 series (FFP reticle, zero stop) , the glass in it is every bit as good as the best Euro glass.  But it is also $2,500, so it better be damn good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2008 at 20:57
RifleDude's comments I think are quite accurate and well thought out. And in my experience I agree. I do how ever feel that the NF is a step or two above the Nikon's though.

For another perspective. You might want to take a look at the SWFA scope rating scale.

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8185
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2008 at 21:04
Well if I had waited a few minutes I would not have felt the need to reply since Rancid said it all. And very well I might add.
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Mike VS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike VS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2008 at 08:34
Thanks for the invite to the forum and your insites on my question!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2008 at 18:29
OK, the vs. IOR "observations" have been done to death, but I've got to ask:
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Now, the F1 series (FFP reticle, zero stop) , the glass in it is every bit as good as the best Euro glass. 

How did you come up with that?  Do you have one, to what have you compared it and how?

The only comparo I've seen so far is the thread on SH where a whole bunch of people compared one to a Premier, side by side.  Every single last one of them, including the NF fans, felt the glass was better in the Premier.  When something (that many often claim is subjective without instrumentation) is agreed upon by every single person that compares, that really means it was no contest--the difference between the two must have been blatantly obvious.

They're nice scopes, but the guy is asking for information--specifically on glass quality.  $2500 is a lot of money.   If somebody dropped that much on one because I said its glass was as good as S&B or top level Zeiss...hopefully I wouldn't need to go into hiding....       Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2008 at 18:48
Not to change the subject, BUT, I guess I am changing the subject.  JonA, there is a nice NEW forum topic.. THE RANGE REPORT... designed specifically for a FULL SCALE, DETAILED report on the Premier Heritage....

Know anyone who has one?????????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2008 at 19:33
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

The only comparo I've seen so far is the thread on SH where a whole bunch of people compared one to a Premier, side by side.  Every single last one of them, including the NF fans, felt the glass was better in the Premier.  When something (that many often claim is subjective without instrumentation) is agreed upon by every single person that compares, that really means it was no contest--the difference between the two must have been blatantly obvious.


How many is a whole bunch?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 10:46
I've read the SH opinions, and mostly agree. They compared the Premier (maybe that thread, maybe another) with S&B and said the glass in the Premier was at least as good as the S&B and probably  a little better (I don't yet own Premier, have looked through one side-by-side with PM2 and agree with the statements.)

I said it was as good as Euro glass ("tactical Euro glass" was inferred) thus making the F1 on par with S&B but not as good as the Premier.

Another note of interest:  I don't yet count Premier as anything since it just came out and is not proven.  The Nightforce is a known value with a well-earned track record.


lastly, glass quality is subjective, I know.  I know a few with Heritage and have compared, side-by-side with S&B, USO, and Nightforce, and the glass at that level is tough to call - but the Heritage looked damn nice.  I have no reluctance in recommending the F1 (if you can get one) and would relay my experiences with the Premier (limited as they are) but cannot recommend it yet - too new.

However, new as the Premier is, I will own one soon!  Maybe the new 5-25 coming out in Spring 09.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 19:53
I think the guys only talking about hunting scopes, so bringing in high end tacticals is somewhat pointless-- which brings the only scope in the hunting catagory of NF to compare or their new 2.5x10x33 (?) which really isn't a fair comparison. If you compare NF bench models its still apples and oranges because of such features as zoom ratio, AO, reticle subtensions etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2008 at 16:43
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I said it was as good as Euro glass ("tactical Euro glass" was inferred) thus making the F1 on par with S&B but not as good as the Premier.

OK, first how do you know the glass in the Premier is not "Euro?"  You don't.

Secondly, I have compared the Premier with S&B and I and everybody else I know of who has say it's really damn close.  The Premier might be a tiny bit better but they are so close it is really, really, hard to even tell them appart, much less declare a definitive winner.

If you think the comparo would have gone from unanimous to anything but had the Premier been swapped with a S&B, you're fooling yourself.  And the OP.
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