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Minox HG Binos? And Other Thoughts

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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2008 at 10:56
Generally speaking, under $1000, I think Meopta Meostar is the best binocular available (at least of the stuff I have seen).  If you are willing to pay a little more, take a good look at Kowa Genesi.  If you would rather pay a little less look at Vortex Razor.  If you want to staty closer to a $500 mark, look at Vortex Viper.

Personally, for my "big" binoculars, I went with Vortex Razor 8.5x50 (I do not like 10x glass since my hands are not very steady).  For my alround binoculars I prefer 7x42 configuration.  I have used Swarovski SLC 7x42 for quite a while, but I sold them and will probably go to a different 7x42.  For the time being Meopta 7x42 is the most likely candidate.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2008 at 19:43
ILya,
 
Very interesting comments. I have always wondered what the 8.5x50 Razor was like. Would you care to comment further? I was always impressed by the 8x42 Razor and was considering trying one of the 50 mm models. Is it really everything I would expect from a larger aperture glass?
 
...and let me know about the 7x42 Meostar. I have the 8x and briefly tried the 7x several years ago but would like to hear your opinion on it.
 
Thank you.
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2008 at 21:47
I have reviewed 7x42 Meostar a while back (it should be somewhere on this website). I was incredibly impressed with it optically, but did not like the eyecups.  There were not intermediate stops at the time.  Eyecups were redesigned since then, I think, so it may be worth another look.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2008 at 21:48
Oh, and 8.5x50 Razor is, in my opinion, a better binocular than the 8x42 from the standpoint of seeing details.  Field of view is not as wide, but sweetspot is larger.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2008 at 21:58
Originally posted by FrankD FrankD wrote:

ILya,
 
Very interesting comments. I have always wondered what the 8.5x50 Razor was like. Would you care to comment further? I was always impressed by the 8x42 Razor and was considering trying one of the 50 mm models. Is it really everything I would expect from a larger aperture glass?
 
...and let me know about the 7x42 Meostar. I have the 8x and briefly tried the 7x several years ago but would like to hear your opinion on it.
 
Thank you.


http://opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6641



Edited by koshkin - October/16/2008 at 21:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seabird1st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2008 at 21:31
Hello, jumping in here to this discussion because I'm looking at the Minox HG 10x43 BR - Rangefinding Binocular. I saw the reviews of the Minox HGs in general, but what about the Rangefinder?? Is that just a marketing extra add on to get us to spend more bucks, or is it worth it?
Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anweis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2008 at 07:04
Originally posted by seabird1st seabird1st wrote:

I saw the reviews of the Minox HGs in general, but what about the Rangefinder?? Thanks!
 
I looked at those binoculars briefly more than one year ago. They don't have a true rangefinding capability. Rather, you focus you binoculars and then you look at the markings on the focusing knob and read what the approximate distance is. It may work as a "guesstimate", but each person has different eyes, affecting the estimate within 200 yards, and as the distance to objects increases, the accuracy of the estimate decreases. Past 250 or 300 yards, pretty much everything is in focus, and you can't use the rangefinder.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anweis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2008 at 07:05
Originally posted by anweis anweis wrote:

Originally posted by seabird1st seabird1st wrote:

I saw the reviews of the Minox HGs in general, but what about the Rangefinder?? Thanks!
 
I looked at those binoculars briefly more than one year ago. They don't have a true rangefinding capability. Rather, you focus you binoculars and then you look at the markings on the focusing knob and read what the approximate distance is. It may work as a "guesstimate", but each person has different eyes, affecting the estimate within 200 yards, and as the distance to objects increases, the accuracy of the estimate decreases. Past 250 or 300 yards, pretty much everything is in focus, and you can't use the rangefinder.
 
 
But is is a fine binocular optically, just don't expect too much from the rangefinder, just look at it as a bonus estimator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cats9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2008 at 17:37
alright, so I ain't no optics guru (or English major), but I finally had a chance to stack up the following binos against each other side by side (or actually on top of each other) at dusk:
 
- Zeiss Conquest ABK 8x40
- Vortex Razors 8x42
- Minox HG 8.5x43
- Swarovski EL 8.5x42
- Promaster Infinity ELX 8x42 ED
 
In my heart, I wanted the Minox's to win (mainly b/c the guys at competitorny are running a great deal on them that brings 'em down into my price range), but the favorite for my eyes, hands and wallet were the Promasters, outdone only by the ELs.
 
The EL's were a shade better in terms of brightness and apparent clarity, but not at almost 4x the price.
 
For my eyes, the Promasters beat the Conquests, Razors and HGs hands down.  Don't get me wrong, the HGs are a great glass, but the smaller FOV, smaller design that is just an uncomfortable "fit" for me and not-quite-as-good lens clarity threw them out of the running.  I would still, however, say that the HG is a cleaner and more crips glass than the Razors (again just by small varying degrees and for my eyes).  For some reason or another the Conquests were just left in the dust by the others.
 
Honestly, the only thing holding me back right now is the "too good to be true" thought.  I still can't believe that a glass retailing for $500 (not on sale, no discounts, etc.) is better than its $800-$1000 competitors and almost, and I mean da*n close almost, as good as the $2K EL.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seabird1st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2008 at 19:21
One question then, is the reliability of the company. I just read up on those binocs, and saw their "no fault" lifetime warranty. That is only as good as long as the company is there in 10 or 20 or 50 years. And what about repair services? Anyone have any experience about service from Promaster?
Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucznik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2008 at 19:57
Sorry this wasn't addressed earlier.  I missed your post with the original questions:

Originally posted by cats9 cats9 wrote:

Also, I have a buddy who swears that FOV is the biggest determining factor in light gathering (ie, the bigger FOV, the more/better light gathering). 
Your buddy is decidedly wrong.

Originally posted by cats9 cats9 wrote:

This just doesn't sound right to me. 
That's good because otherwise, you would be wrong too. Big%20Grin

Originally posted by cats9 cats9 wrote:

Obviously, first and foremost, it's the lens diameter that's the most determinative and then a whole bunch of other physics stuff that's way beyond me. 
This is essentially correct.


Originally posted by cats9 cats9 wrote:

I always thought the FOV was subjectively set by the glass maker based on criteria they are comfortable with for distortion at the edges, etc.  Can someone clarify this for me?
This too is basically correct though, you have to be a bit careful how far you extend the logic.   Not all wide fields of view are the result of a manufacturer simply accepting higher levels of edge distortion.  Sometimes it is because of greater skill at making optics.


Edited by lucznik - October/28/2008 at 20:01
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2008 at 20:40
Spot ont, but it is not just about skill and accepting aberrations, etc.

Design purpose is also important since depth of focus plays a role here as well.

ILya


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2008 at 22:36
cats9
 
Well you've read about them and now you have had the chance to compare the Promaster for yourself.  Prettywell follows what FrankD and I have reported.  They are a scary good glass for what they cost.  I have bought some for myself and have taken them through  deer season and have no complaint with them.  I also have no reason to change my opinion of them either.  So the choice is yours I guess.  I know what you mean about the "too good to be true".  Decision time huh?  I decided that for that kind of optics at that price, I'd take them for a spin.  No regrets so far.  Maybe the objective lens will fall out the next time I use them, but I don't think so.
 
Steve


Edited by Klamath - October/28/2008 at 22:37
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cats9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2008 at 22:59
Steve, you're last sentence kinda also goes back to what Seabird was asking in an earlier post.

Even though Promaster's website looks like it was put together by a dude that just wrapped up his first semester of Web Page Design 101, I'm almost sure I heard from a pretty reputable dealer that the company has been around for a while.  Can the guys much more informed than me confirm? 

To a big extent (probably the biggest), this company "history" as well as their lifetime no fault warranty (http://www.promaster.com/support/warrantylifetimeBINOCS.asp) pretty much takes the cake for me over the supposedly comparable Hawkes (I haven't had the chance to look through them so I can't say for sure) that everyone is also talking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2008 at 23:30
cats9
 
I was referring to Seabirds post.  I really do not think there is a build quality issue.  Promaster has been around awhile.  Check your pm.
 
Steve
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