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Rear Focus Scope - Butler Creek Flip Ups

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dougedwards View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougedwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 00:29
 thanks Ilya.........I wish I hadn't mentioned 30 yards at all because it doesn't matter which distance I am focusing. The only remedy to bring an object into clear focus at any distance is to adjust the ocular.  When changing magnification focusing on a particular object at say...100 yards....I must adjust the ocular.  The side adjustment won't do anything to adjust focus.   When optically focusing on a crisp object at 50 yards I must again re-focus the ocular as I begin to focus on object further away.  The side adjustment MUST stay at 30 yards (paralax)  to allow crisp focus at any distance or magnification and then only is brought into focus using the ocular ajustment. 
 
 <Don't take it personally, but since your e-mail has confused the heck out of me, it may have confused the people at Legacy and Kahles (although they are saying something thoroughly bizarre).>  I actually don't think that the guy at Kahles was confused at all by my question as he seem to exactly understand how the scope is to be focused.  If I do exactly what he says to do then I have no problems except for having to constantly adjusting the ocular.  This guy clearly states that the focusing is done with the ocular adjustment and not the side parallax adjustment.  When I read his reply to my problem I just thought for sure that this must be how this particular scope operates and that I would just have to live with it.
Again what bothers me is that it seems this fellow is stating that ALL focusing is done with the ocular which is exactly what I am experiencing.   I have already sent my scope to Legacy and will report on it's progress as you have done with the one that you shipped to Austria.  Hope my experience turns out like yours even if I have to wait 2 months to get it back.
 
 Doug


Edited by dougedwards - August/07/2008 at 00:58
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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 00:50
One last question:

How did you get the reticle into focus in the first place?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougedwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 01:05
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

One last question:

How did you get the reticle into focus in the first place?
 
 There was only one way to get the reticle into focus and that was to look at the sky and turn the ocular adjustment until the reticle was crisp.   I then began to focus on close objects  at 3x as 30-50 yards is frequently my hunting range in the thickness of Virginia's forests.   If I had the parallax set at 30 yards I had no problem until I began to focus on objects further away.  As I did this I, of course, thought that the parallax needed to be adjusted to the distance but as I increased the parallax to the distance matters got worse. 
 
 You do ask a good question however concerning the reticle as this guy from Kahles seems to ignore the fact that everytime you have to adjust the ocular to focus on the object that you in turn can be adjusting the reticle out of focus.   I just knew I should have stuck with my good ole Sightrons.  Anything ever goes wrong with them in the least and they just send you a new one the next day..........Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 01:13
It sounds like you were doing it correctly and the scope is screwed up.  Most likely the gearing of the side-focus adjustment is in need of repair.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougedwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 01:39
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

It sounds like you were doing it correctly and the scope is screwed up.  Most likely the gearing of the side-focus adjustment is in need of repair.

ILya
 
 Yes I agree but doesn't it seem odd that someone who is supposed to be knowledgable about their optical product would explain that the focusing can be done by setting the parallax to 100 yards and then focusing the scope on the object with the eyepiece??  At all distances and magnifications?? Doesn't he give any thought at all to what that will do to the focus of the reticle.  Geeeesh..........it wouldnt' matter how confused the guy might have been with my question.......that is an outlandish recommendation don't you think?
 
 Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mercenary1947 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 09:49
 Man that would drive me nuts ... having to refocus all the time ! And it looks like Kahles CS is floating to the top on crappy CS .  I agree Doug .... and having to ship it to europe for repair !!!   BS%20Flag
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougedwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 09:59
Originally posted by mercenary1947 mercenary1947 wrote:

 Man that would drive me nuts ... having to refocus all the time ! And it looks like Kahles CS is floating to the top on crappy CS .  I agree Doug .... and having to ship it to europe for repair !!!   BS%20Flag
 
 Yeah and I know you like Nikon and some have had a tough time with their customer service.  Not me.....sent my Nikon Monarch to them because of a break in the reticle and they immediately sent me an email to alert me to the fact that it was indeed a warranty issue and I received a repaired scope in less than a week.  That was outstanding.
 
 Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 11:51
Nikon is, apparently, working on improving their customer service (good on them).

The statement from the kahles guy, as I said, is absolutely bizarre.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunshow75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 12:04
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

The statement from the kahles guy, as I said, is absolutely bizarre.ILya

About four weeks ago, I called and spoke with Emmit to ask when a Kahles scope having a particular serial number was manufactured. Emmit told me he would have to speak with some lady in Austria, and he would get back to me in a week or so. I have not heard from him.


Tom



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougedwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2008 at 08:50
Originally posted by Gunshow75 Gunshow75 wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

The statement from the kahles guy, as I said, is absolutely bizarre.ILya

About four weeks ago, I called and spoke with Emmit to ask when a Kahles scope having a particular serial number was manufactured. Emmit told me he would have to speak with some lady in Austria, and he would get back to me in a week or so. I have not heard from him.
 
 After several attempts at emaiing Emmett at Legacy he finally responded back with an email telling me that he hasn't heard anything from the service dept.  That is the total response of the email to me and I am concerned that I will ever see my rifle scope again.
 
 The moral to this story is to never place yourself in a position where you have no options.  This is the position that I have put myself by purchasing a store demo rifle scope at auction on ebay.  Normally I would return the scope to the retailer but that isn't an option.  Now I am at the mercy of the servicing USA agent for Kahles and they don't seem to give a flip.  In fact in my very first phone conversation with Emmett he flat out told me that I was in a bad situation as all Multizero scopes were manufactured before Legacy Sports took over the warranty obligation from Swarovski.  
 
 I am discouraged and maybe this will have to be an expensive lesson for me.  A rifle scope is just too essential of an element to hunting success to be taking a risk such as I have done by not purchasing from a reliable and dependable retailer.  I will keep the forum posted on the repair of the scope or lack of..........
 
 Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2008 at 09:07
Originally posted by dougedwards dougedwards wrote:

Doesn't a first focal plane scope require adjustment of the eyepiece focus as you change magnification??


Nope, the rear focus is for the reticule, not the target.  Once the reticule is focused, it should stay focused as power changes; if it does not, send the scope in for service.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2008 at 09:18
Originally posted by dougedwards dougedwards wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

One last question:

How did you get the reticle into focus in the first place?
 
 There was only one way to get the reticle into focus and that was to look at the sky and turn the ocular adjustment until the reticle was crisp.   I then began to focus on close objects  at 3x as 30-50 yards is frequently my hunting range in the thickness of Virginia's forests.   If I had the parallax set at 30 yards I had no problem until I began to focus on objects further away.  As I did this I, of course, thought that the parallax needed to be adjusted to the distance but as I increased the parallax to the distance matters got worse. 
 
 You do ask a good question however concerning the reticle as this guy from Kahles seems to ignore the fact that everytime you have to adjust the ocular to focus on the object that you in turn can be adjusting the reticle out of focus.   I just knew I should have stuck with my good ole Sightrons.  Anything ever goes wrong with them in the least and they just send you a new one the next day..........Doug


Sorry, coming in to this a little late in the game, but I am sure I will NOT be buying Kahles till I hear that things improve.  And if their main point of contact doesn't know what is FFP and what is SFP, that doesn't bolster my confidence.


Good luck, dude, hope you get your scope back and it works.  (And when you focus the ocular using the "look at a clear sky", be sure to look only for a few seconds, adjust, and look again.  If you stare through the tube for too long, the lens in your eye will compensate for the out-of-focus reticule.  Look  at the reticule, if not perfect, look away, make minor adjustment, look again at the reticule.  If you simply look at the reticule with a blank sky background, and keep spinning the ocular focus, eventually your eye and the change in focus will make things look good, but only till you look away.  Minor changes, don't stare at the reticule for more than a few seconds, and once the reticule is in focus, it should stay in focus.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougedwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2008 at 10:49
 Thanks Rancid......I will remember to do that if I ever get my scope back.
 
 Doug
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