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Mark 4 vs Zeiss Conquest vs Nightforce?

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Mithran View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mithran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2008 at 01:46
Bah, grab an SS10x42 for 300 bucks, use the hell out of it, get good with it, and then after a little while you will find out what you really need.  You're not shooting at running insurgents, so you don't need a variable with low end mag, and your not shooting +1000 yards so you won't need more than 10x mag.  It's built like a tank, repeatable, durable and clear, and if it's not what you want, they hold their value much better than most other scopes, and if you do like it but want something more than keep it as a backup and you'll only be out 300 bucks.  Seems easy to me. 
 
The Nightforce kicks serious ass but Rancid can agree with me on this, some of the best shooters in the world did it with 10x fixed scopes or lower for many many years, and did it well. 
 
Edited for mispelling.Loco


Edited by Mithran - July/10/2008 at 01:48
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Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2008 at 11:39
I agree with Mithran on most points; however, going back to the original question from the firt post, if glass is the most important part of the decision, only the IOR or Nightforce will be better glass.

If you want to make a few bucks, sell the Conquest and the Nikon and buy a SuperSniper: good glass, tactical scope, very rugged, not as heavy as Nightforce.

At the end of the day, I recommend you buy what you want - not what you think you need.  The Zeiss is a good scope, has more than enough magnification (which can be dialed down to the minimum, some people forget that), and has good glass.

Since shooting is done on the bench with a max range of 300 yards, in truth, I see no reason to buy another scope - unless you just want one.
You really don't "need" a mil dot or ranging reticule, nor do you need tactical (but it is a tac gun, and a damn fine one),  so forget "need" and decide what you "want" and move in that direction.

Mithran is also right that a good 10X can place hits on a target out to 800 yards and beyond, assuming the shooter does his part.

I am not an advocate of too much magnification (having learned precision shooting on a 10X) so I own nothing higher than 17X (USO SN3, great scope.)  And for shots up to but not exceeding 300 yards, glass ain't gonna be a problem for you, get what you want.

Of your list, I'd buy Nightforce, with IOR as a second; but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the scope you have now.  If you want, go to Kenton Industries, get a BDC for the scope, it'll be allot cheaper than all new glass, and you will have range-specific load data on the elevation turret - easy to make dope changes.
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brencat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brencat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2008 at 00:17
Seriously, thank you all for your replies. Family is going to PA for a BBQ this weekend and I may sneak out for 30 mins to visit a local dealer near our friend's place that carries Nightforce. May finally get to see one (I hope!) so will see what all the rage is about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brencat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 11:54
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

 
Leaves me thinking:
414530 IOR%204-14x50%20Tactical%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 IOR 4-14x50 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Illuminated MP-8
  • 30mm
  • Exposed Knobs
  • Side Focus
SWFA: $1,149.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
 
Update 7/16/08:
 
Wanted to let you all know that I posted a similar question in the Snipershide forum and Scott Berish from Libertyoptics replied that the IOR 4-14x50 which urimaginaryfrnd linked above is "a step or two above the Zeiss Conquest" with respect to optical quality/glass. He also mentioned if I'm primarily interested in glass, Nightforce or Leupy Mark 4 would NOT be an upgrade for me.  I value Scott's opinion because he has a reputation of being extremely detail oriented and critical.  Just wanted to put that out there for those of you who helped me out in this forum.  Thanks again, B.
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Jon A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 13:20
I agree.
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 13:44
the absence of three posters on your questions in sh is louder than the one's you got, tactical, archlight and lindy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brencat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 16:41
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

the absence of three posters on your questions in sh is louder than the one's you got, tactical, archlight and lindy.
 
Sorry Dale, I'm new here and there. Care to explain what you mean??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 22:20
When I look at the SWFA scope rating scale Nightforce and IOR are rated the same and above the Zeiss Conquest.  http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8185   I own several Nightforce scopes and I am very pleased with them. I have looked though some IOR's and went with the Nightforce. Initially I was what ever with regards to NF scopes but after using a friend's I changed my mind.

Plus if their glass is not that good, why are they fairly common at bench rest competitions? Also I think that Rancid Coolaid's comments are very appropriate that there is nothing wrong with what you have.

And just a thought, but Liberty optics does not sell Nightforce.


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Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 23:31
I think the Nightforce and the IOR are very similar quality glass and both better than conquest but neither as good as Diavari.
 
5217559973 New%20Zeiss%206-24x56%20Victory%20Diavari%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 New Zeiss 6-24x56 Victory Diavari 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Illuminated Rapid 1000
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Target Knobs
  • LotuTec Protective Coating
SWFA: $2,199.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
Also I looked at a Z6 the other day and the glass was definately something to brag about
59316 New%20Swarovski%202-12x50%20Z6%2030mm%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 New Swarovski 2-12x50 Z6 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Ballistic Reticle
  • 30mm
SWFA: $1,858.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - July/17/2008 at 23:36

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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 00:09

this question was beat to death on sh, liberty is just starting out and does specials on ior, not good or bad just lack of experience in long range shooting, most of the opinions go about 50/50 glass between ior and nf with over scope going to nf. neither the conquest nor the ior have the real world track record to qualify in tactical or bench/target .

not knocking the conquest but its not as good as the mk4, in either tracking or overall construction.

 
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Jon A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 03:39
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

most of the opinions go about 50/50 glass between ior and nf with over scope going to nf. 

Where on earth are you seeing 50/50 opinions on glass quality between the two?  Even on SH, which has historically been about the most anti-IOR board I've ever seen, among die-hard Nightforce fans (many of whom hate IOR with a passion for one reason or another fairly or not) by and large even most of these guys will concede IOR has better glass.  In fact, I can't think of a single person who has ever stated Nightforce has better glass.  Many will say they're close enough it doesn't matter, IOR isn't enough better to change opinion on the overall scope, they'll say they prefer Nightforce for other reasons, that glass quality isn't the most important thing, etc, and that's fine. 

But that's not what brencat is asking about.   He's not taking it to war.  He's shooting targets and specifically states glass quality is of the utmost importance to him. For that reason, IOR is the best choice of the ones listed.  Though, I see on the other thread he lists USO as a choice so if he can afford that it could skew things.

I don't know, maybe your experiences have been different than mine and most others.  Just recently I was comparing a 5.5-22X56 NSX to my 3-18 as well as my $320 4-14 Falcon.  Honestly, the NSX was closer in glass quality to the Falcon than it was the IOR.  Yes it was better,  but if you had to group two it would have been those two as closest with the IOR out on another planet all by itself.  

Don't get me wrong, there are many very good reasons to choose the NSX as it is an excellent scope, but having better or even as good glass as an IOR is not one of them IMHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 09:21
its going on a trg not a remington 700 , if you want spinners on your bmw be my guest.
watching the post for about 3 years in sh brings me to that conclusion, the new ior 9x36 i just got doesn't have better glass, if as good as my, 8x32 nf bench, and was defective from the manufacturere, -- if sh is so anti ior why did they make a special edition group buy of the sh 3x18-- just the 50% who liked them???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 13:36
Glass quality.  Glass quality.  Those disliking IORs on SH do not dislike them for glass quality.  Can you find me one single example of any of them, much less 50%, claiming Nightforce NSX is better for glass quality? 

And yes, getting out a bit more gives you a more complete picture sometimes.  Search IOR vs. Nightforce there, then go do it at a place like Snipers' Paradise and you'll get the polar opposite response--not just glass quality but the overall scopes in general--which shows SH to be unfriendly to IOR in comparison.  The SH edition scope was despite all that, but no, 50% of the membership did not buy them.  With that many people in one place, there were enough wanting it to make it happen.

Finally, have you compared your 8-32 benchrest model to an NSX?  Even Nightforce will tell you, you can expect a much better view through their benchrest models than the NSX's.  So if you're talking about NSX glass, be sure you're using NSX glass as your basis for comparison.

He wants good glass.  He's not using a Barska or even a Leupold, but he's already using a Conquest.  Telling him to go spend $1500 on an NSX because its glass will be that much better than a Zeiss is setting him up for disappointment.  And possible anger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 13:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skilly1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 14:17
i would like to know why sightron is number 5 in t-bones rating when it should be in the top 3 as im concerned. The slll scopes are superior scopes that are as clear as most of your top scopes on the market, and the scope i have is better than any leupold, nikon, burris, simmons, tasco, weaver, redfield and so on. and im sure many others would agree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 23:41

have compared the benchrest with my nsx 3.5x15, the difference is mostly one less lens group in the ao, but the bench is still better glass and they usually go for around $1100. don't think you can get the search on sh to work very well -- notorious evil thing. and yes my post is at least on in sh that says the nf glass is better, but then snipersparadise likes leos. as do a lot on sh. again its not going on a hunting gun its a trg, so again if you want spinners on your bmw be my guest.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2008 at 02:59
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

yes my post is at least on in sh that says the nf glass is better

That's what it says alright. 
Quote don't think you can get the search on sh to work very well

Uh huh.    You make the assertion that 50% believe they have better glass, but when asked to provide a single post from a single person ever saying that ever, you cannot.  So you fall back on tossing out another insult instead.  I guess that's easier than admitting you were mistaken.
Quote if you want spinners on your bmw be my guest.

Though you're either too lazy or lack the capacity to think of a new one so you use the same zinger twice in a row.  It's really not good enough for repeated use.  Really.
Quote but then snipersparadise likes leos. 

OK, I guess you couldn't understand what I wrote and have apparently never been there.  Since you were too lazy, I took a whole 10 seconds out of my day and did it for you.  I was speaking of threads like this,  http://snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/index.php?showtopic=13938&hl
and this, http://snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/index.php?showtopic=19570&hl or this http://snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/index.php?showtopic=23411&hl .  Think what you could find with a 20 second search.

The point was broadening of one's horizons is sometimes a good idea.  If all your information is gleaned from one source you might not be getting the whole picture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2008 at 05:09

Jon A, your getting "danger close" to having your privileges here permanently suspended due to your demeanor and overall smart-assery. It's getting old...fast.

If you can't make your point without insulting someone in the process, then you don't have what it takes to be a member here.
 
Agreement with other members here is not required, but if you can't disagree any better than what I've seen so far, you might want to change AO's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2008 at 11:09
Thank you Cheaptrick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2008 at 11:38
Ditto, and Ditto again
 
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