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Mark 4 vs Zeiss Conquest vs Nightforce? |
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brencat
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/07/2008 Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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Posted: July/07/2008 at 15:47 |
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Hi all. First post here and need some suggestions. I currently own a like-new Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20 x 50mm (Z-plex) mounted to a Sako TRG-22 .308 and used for recreational benchrest shooting only at typically not more than 300yrds. In addition, I also own a NIB Nikon Monarch 6.5-20 x 44 (#6558 target dot reticle) which is sitting in my safe unused.
For my purposes, I am now considering a lower power tactical scope in the ~ 4.5-14 x 50mm range given their larger FOV and exit pupil, plus I also want a different reticle and the flexibility to go on the rare long-range shoot.
Will probably look to sell the Nikon regardless, since it's not being used. If I also sell the Zeiss 6.5-20 x 50, that would give me ~ $1000 to put toward:
1. Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 4.5-14 x 50mm with TMR reticle
2. Nightforce 3.5-15 x 50mm with NP-R2 reticle
3. IOR 4-14 x 50 with non-illuminated MP-8 reticle
4. The lower power Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14 x 50mm with Rapid Z-1000 reticle
OR... just simply keep my 6.5-20 Conquest and send in to have the reticle changed to Z-1000 !
The clarity of the glass is most important factor to me since I sit on a bench. My concerns are:
Nightforce -- 50% heavier and indestructible but not necessarily better glass
Mark 4 -- Cost but not necessarily better glass
IOR -- Looks really interesting! But warranty not as good as Zeiss or Leupold
Really could use some help of what you all would do. Thanks in advance.
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22284 |
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Send the 6.5-20X50 to Zeiss and have the reticle changed to the Rapid Z-1000, and get a 20MOA base. Thats my vote. Oh yea I'm a cheapskate.
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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brencat
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/07/2008 Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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Well, looks like I won't be able to send my scope in for a Rapid-Z reticle change. Looking around on their site (which is a disastrous unorganized mess btw), I came across this note:
"Please be advised that there is currently no available option to retrofit the Zeiss Rapid-Z reticles into previously purchased Zeiss riflescopes with a standard reticle. This is to ensure that customers who want to purchase a new Zeiss riflescope with the Rapid-Z reticle are given priority attention. We thank you for your understanding."
So I guess the easy option is out. Bummer.
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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All are good scopes. There is a significant difference between what you "want" and what you "need." Buy what you want.
I like Nightforce, great experiences, great scopes; I like IOR's product but have had bad CustServ experiences and cannot recommend; I like Conquest and have had great experiences with the scopes and their CustServ. For bench, weight is mostly irrelevant, clarity is important, and I don't see that you gain much from a ranging reticule (ranging with the reticule is very perishable - do it often to do it well.) Go with what you want. All choices listed are better than the Leupold, in my opinion. I'd lean toward the Nightfoce, but many will disagree. I can say this for certain: the very best purchasing experiences I have had came from SWFA - be wary of doing business elsewhere. And SWFA doesn't sell Nightforce. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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And why do you need 20X for a 300 yard shot?
Buy for the common shot, not the "I might shoot..." shot. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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brencat
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/07/2008 Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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Thanks Rancid. I have dealt with Alex Roy @ Eurooptic in the past for my Zeiss and I like them -- and they sell Nightforce. They also seem to have better prices than SWFA but you have to ask for it. Is SWFA the same way?
At least you answered one of my questions -- that the Zeiss Conquest is better than the Leupold Mark 4, which I suspected. Let's see what others here say.
The other problem is I have no local dealer nearby where I can see the Nightforce or IOR to compare the glass to my Conquest, so I don't know if I'm overpaying for a Nightforce nor whether the IOR warranty process is worth my effort.
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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IN my humble opinion, you aren't overpaying for Nightforce and, so long as you stay away from their newest scopes, you aren't overpaying for the IOR either. If you buy Leupold, you ARE overpaying.
Conquest is a good scope, there might be no reason to change - except that you need a little less magnification. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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the nf is the best choice in all catagories and none of the others come close, and the leo is better than the zeiss in all catagories-- glass is a small part of the equation in tactical scopes, and the zeiss doesn't even qualify as a tactical scope, (plastic turrets, hash marks don't go completely around the turret)
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22284 |
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He didn't ask for a tactical scope, and he said glass was more important.
Naaaa!
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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As this is a bench rifle, shooting 300 yards and less, I see no need for a tactical scope. The Conquest would do just fine. Out to 300 yards, you should have no problem doping the scope.
If it were a 600+ yard gun, my recommendation would change; however, for a bench .308 inside 300 yards in full light, get what you want, the Conquest is all you need - but, as said before, there is a dramatic difference between want and need. I do like my NF and can't say enough good things about it. Some have better glass, but not much better (at least in full light situations.) The NF is a great scope. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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Brencat - first things first SWFA has a 110% price guarantee to have the LOWEST PRICE.
I personally would not buy a quality scope any where else unless it was a brand that they do not carry which would be Nightforce or U.S. Optics.
Second SWFA allows you to TRADE IN optics on the purchase of your choice - simply click on the samplelist link and click on the trade in form to bring it up. Since you have a
6.5 to 20x50 Zeiss Conquest you know what good glass looks like and you may not be happy with anything less than (U..S. Optics, Nightforce, Schmidt Bender, Kahles, Swarovski,or Zeiss) You do have a TRG22 which is a "tactical rifle" and as such I would be inclined to put a tactical scope on it but I'm inclined to put a tactical scope on everything.
I will note that Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50 long range tactical scope may not have the worlds best glass but it' not bad and the clicks are consistent and it has 100moa of internal adjustment. since a duplex can be bought for $974.95. and the Nightforce is about $1425. I would hope you got something for the half again as much money.
I will suggest other options for you at this point:
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