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Scout Rifle Option |
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sholling
Optics Professional Joined: May/24/2008 Location: Hemet CA Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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Posted: June/08/2008 at 15:31 |
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I have an M1A Squad Scout and I'm looking for options. My goal is to use this 80%:20% iron sights/glass. My original goal was a conventional mount and a Weaver DMS 1-4 illuminated but that went out the window. While I've never been a huge fan of the scout scope concept, I've pretty much given up on mounting a conventional scope on it. There are just waaaaay too many pitfalls if you aren't looking to mount it and leave it. And even if you do plan to leave it it's so far from the ideal arrangement that I don't want to deal with it. Trust me I've looked.
From playing around with it it looks like I need a constant 14-16" of eye relief if I use the factory scout mount. My goal is to go with low enough magnification for fast moving dangerous game like Russian Bore, and for those stuff hits the fan times when you don't have time to unlock the quick release rings. To me that means a 1-4x or a 2-7x. Here's what I'm looking at. At the high end: The Burris 2-7x32 handgun scope with ballistic plex reticle. Mid-range: The Bushnell Elite 3200 2-6x32 handgun scope. Low-end: The Weaver Classic 1.5-4x20 handgun scope. Does anybody have any experience with these scopes in a scout application? Will they work with a consistent 14-16" eye relief? Thoughts? Suggestions? Note to the moderator: I'd love to see you ad a category for scout rifles. It kind of falls between rifle and pistol as far as optics goes. |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Why would you need 14-16" of eye relief? Last time I checked M1A scout worked fine with Burris and Leupold scout scopes which have about 9-10" of eye relief.
ILya |
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sholling
Optics Professional Joined: May/24/2008 Location: Hemet CA Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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The closest I can get my eye is just over the base of the pistol grip. That's about 11" from the breach face and I usually figure real world eye relief as 1" shorter than claimed.
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NRA, SAF, & CRPA life member
Member Madison Society & Revolutionary War Veteran Association (Project Appleseed) Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. ;) |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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With very long eye relief scopes like scout and pistols scope there is a lot more flexibility for eye position.
I would stay away from variables and keep it simple. Scout scopes are at their best when they have thick retcles for quick acquisition and low magnification. Either Leupold 2.5x28 scout scope or the competing Burris 2.75x20 scout would be your best options, IMO. ILya |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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the 4x leo pistol works well but its not quite as "fast" as the 2x powers.
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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Sholling....................A seperate category for scout rifles/scopes??? We`d be in the minority around here! Are you kiddin??? We wouldn`t have too much company!!
I have a scout rifle and a combo scout rifle/pistol scope; the Ruger Frontier 300 WSM compact with a 2.5-8x28 Nikon Monarch EER UCC, which is mounted on the barrel in the scout position...........
The distance between my aiming eye and the ocular is 10.5" and regardless of whatever my magnification is set on, this Nikon`s fast focus eye piece will quickly and easily maximize my FOV. To learn more, go to "shootingtimes.com" then click "optics" and then page to find the article written by Dick Metcalf entitled "Dual Purpose Optics from Nikon" which is the reason why I have that Nikon on my rifle!............My 300, regardless of the shorter 16.5" tube, does ballistically exceed a 24" tubed 30-06 by a good margin. That`s why the 8x on the high end, as my little compact is also makes for an excellent long range big game shooter!........
If your hunting ranges are less than 200 yards, go with either the Burris 2.75x fixed scout or the Leupold 2.5x fixed scout. Higher powers within 200 yards are un-necessary. With either one you should not have a problem with eye relief. I agree with Koshkin here!
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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sounds like the best choice to me
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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sholling
Optics Professional Joined: May/24/2008 Location: Hemet CA Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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NRA, SAF, & CRPA life member
Member Madison Society & Revolutionary War Veteran Association (Project Appleseed) Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. ;) |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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scout scopes are at least in theory best mounted low and even with the receiver, quick release features, for use of a ghost ring, on a quick shorter gun, whick allows for a more natural shoulder forward both eyes open shot (both eyes should be open shooting regular scopes, but is another topic) more similiar to shotgun shooting.
a variable goes the other way with the theory, why not get a sadlak with see thrus, and a 1x4 nf or something. a ballistic plex really defeats the purpose.
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I am with Dale on this one (and I have shot a lot of scout rifles over the years, and am planning to get the Savage one again).
I can definitely see the advantage of a variable for target shooting. Now, I have a lot less experience hunting than most people here, but I spend a lot of time on the range shooting at things at different ranges. With a 2.5x scout I am perfectly comfortable shooting at 8" plates out to 400 yards. I can't imagine it not being sufficient for big game hunting. ILya |
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sholling
Optics Professional Joined: May/24/2008 Location: Hemet CA Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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Well I took the majority of folks' advice and went with SWFA's deal the Monarch UCC 2.5-8x28 and a set of Leupold quick detach low rings. The rifle is an M1A Squad Scout and I'll use the irons for 90% of my practice but I want the glass to. I'm sure that I'll mainly keep the scope set at 2.5x (which covers the rest of the advice given) but it's nice to have the ability to zoom in just in case I ever need it. I'm not one to mount the Hubble telescope on hunting rifles... target rifles yes, hunters no.
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NRA, SAF, & CRPA life member
Member Madison Society & Revolutionary War Veteran Association (Project Appleseed) Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. ;) |
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sholling
Optics Professional Joined: May/24/2008 Location: Hemet CA Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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Oops! I almost forgot my manners... Thanks to all that replied! The level of knowledge on here is amazing.
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NRA, SAF, & CRPA life member
Member Madison Society & Revolutionary War Veteran Association (Project Appleseed) Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. ;) |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Eyepiece focusing is not really there for field of view adjustment. I suspect that all you are doing is introducing parallax error to the system.
ILya |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I have read that article.
While I have the greatest respect for Mr Metcalfe as a gun writer, he is flat our wrong on this one (I am guessing he knows a lot more about rifles than about scopes). ILya |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22287 |
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How about a tactical/scout/patrol rifle category to cover those rifles, and optics used for CQB, competition (3-gun, etc.), tactical law enforcement, etc.? This could cover discusions on ACOGs, Elcans, Holosights, Aimpoints, etc. There is a growing use of rifles from close to medium ranges and some good optics for this application, and I think it would be a good category IMO.
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22287 |
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Never mind I've been gone a week, and I forgt the tactical section
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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