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Ruger Redhawk vs Super Redhawk

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koshkin View Drop Down
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Dark Lord of Optics

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2008 at 21:37
I have the greatest respect for Elmer Keith.  However, I am a firm believer into a completely different way of never being outgunned:

One round of 338Lapua or similar with a nice scope fired from a few hundred yards away, so that the target never knows what hit 'em.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2008 at 21:41
thats the spirit!
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2008 at 22:06
there is nothing civil about full mag 44 loads in 4" guns, they are ugly, the 500 is not even as bad as the gun is 2 times as heavy. for comparison shoot 357 mag in a titanium smith about the same. the real utility in 4" backpack smiths are 300 gr LBT hard cast at 1000 fps, very managable. low muzzle blast and second shot repeatablilty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2008 at 22:14
I've shot lightweight smiths (scandium frame? or something along those lines) with full power loads and the recoil was sharp and painful.  However, that one shot from a short barrel 500 seemed worse.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 07:48
Take a look at the Taurus line up.  They are well built revolvers and handle very nicely and are quite a bit cheaper than the Rugers or Smiths.  No, they do not carry the cache of the others, but thats not the real point, unless it is important to you.  The ones that I have tried have an excellent single trigger action, while the DA triggers vary from model to model.  Going over each pistol I have seen, the seams are tight with each showing no major flaws.  My daughter wanted a Taurus 38 special for x-mas and I thought, I am not going to do that and got her a Ruger GP 101 in a 357 mag. with a 4 inch barrel so she can shoot 38 specials and I do not have to buy her another revolver when she wants to move up to a 357.  Great pistol and more expensive that the Taurus, but now that I have purchased the Taurus, read some reviews on www.gun-tests.com and looked at alot of their other revolvers, they are good gun and especially good for the price.  In 1996, the Brazilian people in an overwhelming victory, voted down a George Soros funded campaign to ban all weapons in Brazil, to include the manufacture of any.  This is in a country where there are few gun owners.  I kind of liked supporting them, prefer to buy American, but I did not mind that I supported a country that beat down that ass George Soros.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 08:09
Here are some reviews from www.gun-tests.com.
 
           

May 2007

 

Light, Powerful .44 Revolvers: Taurus Tracker Gets A+ Rating

The Tracker was a clear-cut choice for those who want a portable, powerful package. The lightweight Charter Pug earned an A-, but two costly S&W guns got B and C grades.

Some of the more useful handguns are those revolvers that take the .44 Special cartridge. They work well for hunting, self defense, and we know one shooter who used one to good effect in NRA matches. These revolvers include the .44 Magnum, but many .44 Mags are huge, heavy handguns designed to use the hottest loads in the longest barrels, for such efforts as hunting. While the big .44 is very good at that task, the other — probably more useful — side of the cartridge is as a general-purpose firearm for self defense or for the hiker or plinker who wants more power than the over-loud .357 Magnum. These outdoorsmen don’t want a big, heavy gun, but want a lighter package that still throws a 250-grain bullet at useful speed. The .44 Special fills that bill very well.

There have been a few small .44 Special revolvers on the market, perhaps none so obvious as the Charter Arms Bulldog. Charter was not alone. Taurus just informed us they recently discontinued a similar-size .44 revolver because of lack of sales. We suspect many shooters had no idea the small Taurus .44 existed, more’s the pity. We just found out S&W made a short run of 5-shot revolvers on the L frame, and would love to get our hands on one. But Charter’s near-snubby-size, five-shot revolvers have been around a long time. Those who own them generally like them, though they are hardly target-grade revolvers. With suitable loads they can be excellent self-defense revolvers, but with really hot loads they can be a handful. Some shooters prefer a larger gun for the .44 Special cartridge, but there aren’t all that many available, so the obvious choice is a light .44 Magnum with mild loads.

.44%20Special%20Revolver
Our test guns included two .44 Specials, a stainless Charter Arms Bulldog Pug, bottom, $399, and, top left, S&W’s just-reissued 3-inch Model 24, a special-edition revolver, $1100. We also shot two relatively light .44 Magnums, one a stainless S&W Mountain Gun, right, and a new five-shot, stainless Taurus Tracker, $584, second from bottom. When we tried the four revolvers against each other with an eye for easy carry, self defense, and overall usefulness using .44 Specials, the Tracker came out on top.
We gathered two relatively light .44 Magnums, one an older stainless S&W Mountain Gun, today offered in a blued special edition for about $1000. We also got a new five-shot, stainless Taurus Tracker, $584. And we acquired two .44 Specials, a stainless Charter Arms Bulldog Pug, $399, and S&W’s just-reissued 3-inch Model 24, another special-edition revolver, $1100. We also examined and shot an earlier blued Charter Bulldog, but did not include it in the final report. We wanted to see what changes were made over the years. We tried the four revolvers against each other for general outdoorsmen’s purposes, with an eye to easy carry, self defense, and overall usefulness. We tested all guns with .44 Special ammunition only, except as noted. We used Black Hills’ Cowboy Action loads, which feature a 210-grain cast-lead, flat-nose bullet. We also tested with CCI Blazer 200-grain GDHP, and with an unusual load from Black Hills we had not heard of before. This was the .44 Special "Thunder Ranch Special" ammunition, loaded with a 250-grain SWC cast Keith-style bullet. This ammo is available from Black Hills through any stocking dealer, in case you fall in love with it like we did. Any concealed-carry handgun is better off loaded with factory ammunition – not handloads – because of legal reasons. Keith-type cast SWC bullets have been outstanding performers ever since Elmer designed them in the early part of the last century. However, they are not commonly loaded by any large manufacturer, so this find from Black Hills was a revelation for us. Here’s what we found.

Charter Arms Bulldog Pug

.44 Special, $399

The matte-stainless, five-shot Pug looked just right. It had highly visible fixed sights, comfortable yet not bulky rubber grips, and a 2.5-inch barrel with a shroud that protected the ejector rod. The front sight was integral with the barrel. If we owned this, we’d serrate the ramped rear of the front sight blade with a checkering file to cut potential glare, though we had no such problems during our testing. We also would like a touch more clearance in the sight picture between the front blade and the rear notch. But for the most part, we liked the look and feel of this potent package right from the start.

In a side-by-side comparison with the older blued Bulldog we saw few differences, but they were big ones. As of this writing you get only a 2.5-inch barrel on the Bulldog Pug, despite rumors of Charter offering 2, 4, and 6-inch barrels on this gun. The only Bulldog today is labeled the Bulldog Pug on its barrel and comes with a 2.5-inch barrel. Our sample, and several we’ve seen on the Internet have the company name as "Charter 2000/Shelton, Conn" on the barrel in two lines. The older gun had "Charter Arms Corp. Bridgeport, Conn." in one line. The new barrel has an integral front sight. The older one looks to have had a separate assembly welded on. The new one has a shroud under the barrel protecting the ejector rod. The old one hung in the breeze. Gone is the cylinder-retention lug from the left side of the frame. The new hammer is a touch longer on top, making the new gun easier to cock. Unfortunately, the new gun doesn’t have quite the solid lockup of our earlier sample. We found it possible to slightly rotate the cylinder of the new gun with the hammer in the firing position. The older gun was like a rock. Nothing moved. Both, happily, have excellent, smooth double-action pulls, lighter than both of the S&W revolvers, though the feel was not the same. Given the choice between the older and newer versions, assuming both were stainless, we’d instantly pick the newer one. Workmanship on the new gun appeared to be excellent. The gun had a pleasant, well-finished appearance.

On the range we found the Pug to be a handful. Recoil was there, and it could bite the unexpected. We learned to insert the trigger finger until the second finger segment was on the SA trigger, or else it get it banged in recoil. All three types of ammunition hit close enough to our point of aim that we didn’t miss adjustable sights. Accuracy was not great, best groups going about 2.5 inches at 15 yards. Groups with the new gun were slightly better overall than with the

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 13:14
Thanks, Dolphin.  I looked at Taurus revolvers and they seem well made.  I also really like the ribber grips.  One problem that I have with Taurus revolvers is that the only ones available here in California seem to be the Tracker models, and they are all ported.  I would much rather deal with stiff recoil than the increased muzzle blast of the comp.  I have experimented some with different compensators and muzzle brakes on several weapons.  At this point I do not have a single weapon in my safe that has a compensator, so that should give some insight to my conclusions.

If Taurus was available with a four or five inch barrel and without the porting, I would already own one.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 13:26
Yeah, there is that extra muzzle blast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 18:10
I carried a Smith 629 with a 6" bbl for about 9 years loaded with 44spl.s (because that was the biggest revolver I could carry). It was a choice of 44spl or 38spl. If I had it to do over I would have carried a 4" 629, because that extra 2" adds alot of weight for carry. While the 6" tube was more accurate and controlable, it just wasn't a good choice for a duty gun. The loads I used were either 200gr Federal swaged hollow points or Winchester 200gr Silvertip 44spl.
I did my own action job since I was a department armorer and it was the same action job the FBI gave their S&Ws. You have to change the grips! Almost anything is better than the Smith stocks; I had custom made stocks from Fuzzy Farrent, but I started with Rogers. I also changed the trigger to a standard narrow trigger; this helped with double action control and didn't hurt single action (though I rarely shot SA and was more accurate with double).
I will admit that I'm not crazey about the new Smith revolvers, but they are stronger than the older guns. I tried a new Redhawk not long ago and the DA reminded me of my 629 (smooth).
You will love the 44spl especially if you reload, and use it in magnum.Dirty%20Harry
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 18:21
THanks, BeltFed.  I am kinda leaning toward the 4" Redhawk at this point since several people have commented on it having nicer DA trigger pull.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 22:42
All right, I stopped by a gunstore earlier today:

Square butt large frame Smiths are out: too big for my hand.

Round butt large frame Smiths was pretty comfortable when outfitted with curved Hogue wooden grip (on a Performance Center gun), but not so great with the rubber grip, since the finger grooves do not fit my hand well.

The most comfortable large frame Smith was model 625JM with those slim wooden rips and chambered for 45ACP.   Do you guys know if it is safe to shoot 45 Super out of this revolver?  I really liked that one: just the right size and very comfortable in the hand.  With normal 45ACP it should be pretty soft recoiling.

Ruger Super Redhawk had slightly shorter trigger reach than Smith N-Frame, but is too bit overall.

They did not have Ruger Redhawk for me to try.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 06:29

This is from Ace Customs web site http://www.acecustom45s.com/faq.htm

12. Can I shoot "45Super"®  ammunition in my Smith & Wesson Model - 625? Any of the "45Super"®   tactical ammunition can be shot in the S&W M - 625. Regarding our full power "45Super"®  ammunition, we have received conflicting answers from Smith & Wesson and suggest you contact Smith & Wesson Directly!

The .45 Super is very expensive to shoot and is nowhere close to a .44 mag in power. It is closer to the 10mm Auto.
There are some .454 Casull's out there that you can shoot .45 Long Colt through. This gives a very wide range of power and recoil levels. .454 ammo is easier to come by than .45 Super, too. Check out the Super Redhawk Alaskan, the grips are smaller than the Super Redhawk and is available in .454 and .44. This might be some more options.


Edited by tahqua - April/16/2008 at 06:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 12:49
Yeah, I know that it is nowhere near the power of a 44Mag, but since this is a gun that I am buying simply because I want one, 45ACP has an advantage of not having to add another caliber.  I already have the ammo, and 45ACP is probably similar in power to 44Special loads which I would be shooting the most anyway.  The downside is that I kinda wanted to have that "boomer" option.  The upside is that out of four or so large frame Smiths in that store, the 625 had a noticeably better trigger than even the Performance Center tuned 44Mag.

On Super Redhawk: there was an Alaskan and a regular Suepr Redhawk there, both with similar looking rubber grips (without a wood insert).  The Alaskan has the same size grips, but made of slightly softer material.  With both Super Redhawks trigger reach was quite comfortable and the trigger very nice (DA pull was better than 44Mag Smiths).  The problem is that I want a 4"-5" barrel and Super Redhawk is not available with those barrel lengths, hence my interest in a regular Redhawk which I can get with a 4" barrel (if I manage to find one locally) or in a Smith of some sort which has several varieties in the size I like.

From what I am seeing so far I actually like the DA pull on the Rugers more than on most Smiths, but I suppose I can always have the trigger tuned.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 14:06
most 45 acp revolvers are head spaced on the case mouth even though they use moon clips to give the correct distance to the recoil shield which is really a 45 auto rim. so even though the gun is more than capable of the super I doubt it would fit. If you were to shoot 6 shots very rapidly on a timer the smith would give you a better score , despite the subjective impression of a better DA.
I'm not sure were the impression that the new smiths are not as well made, but they are, and in some of the models  better, Smith incorporated the cylinder stop from the old High standard , and sentinel models which is part of the frame now instead of a pressed in pin. personally I would like an old style redhawk with a 3" barrel in 45 LC.
If you plan to shoot alot the 625 with moon clips is unbeatable, and you can always change out to +P+ loads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 16:01
IMHO the 44mag/spl is more versatile in a revolver than the 45acp/auto rim or 454casull in a revolver. Unless you get lucky or get a used gun, almost any revolver out of the box is going to need an action job of some type. You are also going to need a set of grips (I like Hogues too); most revolver grips are upside down to the human hand. There are lots of options and accessories for the S&Ws and a life time warrenty not that I'm biased. I like the Redhawk too, but I don't have alot of experience with it.
If your hand is to small to get the first joint of your trigger finger to the trigger and keep the bore inline with your forearm then maybe you may want to look at something smaller (I hear Ruger is making a new .32, just kidding).
Jerry Miclick (please excuse the spelling) holds a world speed record using a S&W mod.25 (an N frame) from their performance center. Be it Smith or Ruger I think you will have more fun with a 44.
 
I'm a gun nut. My perfect calibers 44-38-40; aint she fine.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 16:12
Oops! I meant 44-32-40. With a J-frame, you can have six with a 32, nobody can hace six with a 38.GalTwo%20Guns
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 16:16
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

most 45 acp revolvers are head spaced on the case mouth even though they use moon clips to give the correct distance to the recoil shield which is really a 45 auto rim. so even though the gun is more than capable of the super I doubt it would fit. If you were to shoot 6 shots very rapidly on a timer the smith would give you a better score , despite the subjective impression of a better DA.
I'm not sure were the impression that the new smiths are not as well made, but they are, and in some of the models  better, Smith incorporated the cylinder stop from the old High standard , and sentinel models which is part of the frame now instead of a pressed in pin. personally I would like an old style redhawk with a 3" barrel in 45 LC.
If you plan to shoot alot the 625 with moon clips is unbeatable, and you can always change out to +P+ loads.


45 Super's external case dimensions are identical to 45ACP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 20:21
True, the .454 and .45 ACP/Super are not compatible.
Regardless, the other options I mentioned are out.
I would still take a used 629 4" and have the trigger tuned over all other options. Smith's can be tuned by more smith's hands down. S&W's are everywhere and so are parts.
The Redhawk would be next. The DA pull out of the box is better but a Smith is far better overall. Investment castings by nature have more mass/volume to have equal modulus of a forging. The Smith is more trim and in later models is plenty enough for a steady diet of magnum rounds.
I have both, I like Smith.

Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 20:36
I still need to get my hands on the Redhawk and see how it feels.  So far, I've only seen the Smiths and the Super Redhawks.

With the Smith, I may be able to find a used one, so it could be cheaper.  4" Redhawks have not been around very long, so I would have to buy a new one, which is likely more money.

I'll keep looking for now.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 20:39
we are talking about alot of tuning going on here, how many here have shot a revolver enough (PPC or equivalent) to even use pretimed cylinders. It sounds like the tune job is going to flow down the arm and instill a talent. Dougs correct the smiths have the redhawks beat in every catagory.. If one buys a regular revolver practices enough to be able to use a tuned action, the practice would hone the action to the point of a tuned revolver. If your not reloading the 45 acp is still the best bet.
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