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10mm FBI study

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tahqua View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2008 at 08:41
I omitted the fact that you were talking about OAL in 1911 mags, thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2008 at 18:29
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Ron, it's me Doug. Ted is probably at a parade in San Francisco right now.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2008 at 21:21
Back to the original post. The FBI had their 10mm loaded down so the recoil wouldn't hurt their sensitive little hands,and so they could recover from recoil faster. That is where S&W got the idea Thinkingto make the 40S&W; less velocity needed, less powder. Less powder needed shorter case, and small pistol primer helped keep pressures close. Shorter cases could be used in 9mm frames that more people could use. Two%20GunsS&W started with the 4006 that was a beefed up overbuilt 5906 with a 11rd magazine. Beretta and Glock were next with higher rd capacity and the rest is history. Oh yea, the original 10mm pill was 200gr., and original 40S&W pill was 180gr.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2008 at 07:58
several predecessors to the 10-- 41 action express, 40/45, but a guy by the name of Dave Sanford once pres. of IPSC and editor of front site actually was the first,  this was about 2 years before jenks and S&W started playing with it. Occured way back when the 10 was getting started. the 10's did not feed very well in ipsc and require a 24-26 lb spring which takes an RO and the shooter to load the guns. Sanford cut the 10 mm cases down and had guns built for them and shot for several years. S&W didn't like the lg pistol primer for smaller frame, introduced this and the rd. Tom Campbell from S&W was using the 10 in the older smiths about this same time. That summer glock introduced the 40 in the 17 frame which didn't work unti they modified it to take a cross pin recoil lug seen today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote niles coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2008 at 05:12
Meeting major power factor is not hard to do with a .40 guys.... Just pick your powder and bullet weight while using your head. Ive been racing a Glock 35 for years and my duty glock 22 before that, and a HK usp40 before that....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 13:08
I pick and choose what calibers to load since it takes about the same time to load expensive rifle cartridges or pistol cartridges. So I am quite satisfied to let the state buy my 40S&W ammo while I spend time loading rifle cartridges.
 I dont like to reload something where I have to chase brass to recover half of it. I  have been quite satisfied with my issued Glock 22 and have a Glock 35 that I changed the sights to night sights and use for my off duty gun.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VN350X10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2008 at 16:47
Most factory ammo in .40S&W makes major. It's just the "gamers" that try the heavy bullet/fast powder/light recoil theory in .40 that have problems.
The original ballistics of a 40 were a 180 gr @ 950, +/- 25 fps, this yields a PF of  171 (nominal).
Anybody ever hear of the .40 G&A ? It used cut down .224 Wby. for the case (with the belt) in a modified BHP with a barrel made by Bar-Sto.  12 gr of Unique & a 180 gr bullet from a .38-40.
Dont have the article in front of me right now, but I do have the issue of the mag with it in.
And the original specs on a 10MM were (Norma) ;
170 gr @ 1350 fps
200 gr @ 1200 fps
From a 5" bbl.
 
note to tahqua.....WHO are you on GT ?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2008 at 11:30
VN, thanks for the tip on http://www.glockpost.com/forums/index.php. I'm in and the same name there as GT and here.
It's always good to see Freakshow and Big Slick postings. GP is a friendly site and I like that.

Doug


Edited by tahqua - April/17/2008 at 11:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 09:04
Hand loaded 40 S&W with good case support can make more power than hand loaded 10mm with good case support, because of the large primer pocket and deep extractor groove on the 10mm case head.

Hand loaded 45acp with good case support can make more power than hand loaded 10mm with good case support, because of the large primer pocket and deep extractor groove on the 10mm case head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 21:07
Originally posted by Clark Clark wrote:

Hand loaded 40 S&W with good case support can make more power than hand loaded 10mm with good case support, because of the large primer pocket and deep extractor groove on the 10mm case head.

Hand loaded 45acp with good case support can make more power than hand loaded 10mm with good case support, because of the large primer pocket and deep extractor groove on the 10mm case head.


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You are way off on that one. Show me the data. I load .40, 10mm and .45, BTW. The .40 can never, ever be loaded to 10mm velocities.
I expect to see stuff like this at Glock Talk in the caliber corner. DC already stated how .40's can be loaded in 1911 magazines. To think that the .40 can be loaded to 10mm velocities otherwise is a fantasy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 21:13
I can load my .308 to be more powerful than a 300 WM.  Yup, the secret is in the miracle grow I put in with the powder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 21:15
Excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 21:35
I can also load my 10mm to .40 velocities. I use Vicodin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 21:37
Laugh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 22:34
wow a 40 out running a 10mm, even i know better
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 22:46




.357Sig                  10mm                 .40 S&W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2008 at 21:01
If you really want more powder capacity I have a 45-70 Encore pistol.  However if I really feel the need for more gun than a 40 S&W it leaves me thinking M1a

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2008 at 21:13
Wes, I was thinking the same thing.  If I can't put them down with my 23, I have a .308 that will work just fine.   LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VN350X10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2008 at 21:14
Not sure of the need for THAT, but Elmer Keith always pointed out that if you needed more than a heavy loaded .44 Mag (Elmer's loading was 22.0gr of 2400 & a 245/250 gr hardcast bullet. Originally he used 24.0 gr, but in chrono testing saw no velocity advantage, but the felt recoil was heavier)
It was time to get a rifle......a BIG rifle !
 
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.40 S&W.....doesn't this stand for sissies & wimps ?  Or is  it "Specially for Women"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2008 at 21:32
Take a look at this and I think you will reevaluate a handgun round.  I realize with a .44 mag there is a weee bit of difference that with a .40.  But it makes a .308 sound like a pretty good idea ore even better yet a 45-70.

This is from Ignatius Piazza's Blog.  He is the founder of Front Sight.

Pay close attention to the following facts:

1. Range was 20 feet.

2. Three officers involved.

3. One adversary, 18 years old.

4. Officers used M4s with 55 grain and 75 grain .223 ammunition and Glock 22’s with Speer 180 grain Gold Dot ammunition.

5. Adversary used .45 ACP handgun.

6. Trace amounts of marijuana in adversary’s system.

7. 107 rounds fired by two officers with 17 rounds striking adversary (16% hit ratio).

8. Of the 17 hits, 11 created exit wounds.

9. NO HEAD SHOT DELIVERED by officers at range of 20 feet from either their rifles or handguns.

10. Adversary fired 26 rounds and reloaded magazine from a box of loose ammunition.

11. Incident lasted approximately 3.5 minutes.

12. When adversary was no longer able to return fire, officers still had to “fight” to get him handcuffed.

13. Interesting tattoos on very dedicated adversary.

14. I would add under the FBI’s Lessons Learned Section that when you do not inflict immediate, incapacitating damage to your adversary, you often create a “Superman Effect” in your adversary from the normal physiologic response to significant, but non-life threatening injury.

I experienced this myself when I broke both arms in an all terrain vehicle accident 20 years ago. I distinctly remember looking at both wrists, twisted and broken, but remarkably felt NO PAIN. I was so surprised by the lack of pain that I actually shook the wrists a bit in disbelief! I then crossed my arms, holding the wrists close to my body for support, and JOGGED back toward camp for several minutes before the pain began and then quickly intensified to the point where any movement of my body was extremely painful. It is during this brief but significant period of NO PAIN that your adversary can fight you like a “Superman” even though you may be continuing to deliver hits to his body.

The answer to such a dangerous opponent is the cranio-ocular shot. You must have the mindset and ability to slow down and deliver a dedicated shot to the area between your opponent’s eyebrows and moustache to end the fight. If you are so inclined, Front Sight can train and ingrain you to do so.

WARNING this is very graphic It has autopsy photos of the perp.

http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/wp-content/uploads/officer.pdf


Edited by supertool73 - August/11/2008 at 12:04
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

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