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My BEEF w/ Bushnell!!!

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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 23:09
Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

Helo18,
 
I'm building a 270 and would like to know what kind of reliable range you are getting. And if you don't mind talking shop, what are you loading? It will give me some proven options and might save me some powder. What kind of groups are you getting on your max range? Right now I'm using Sierra 140hpbt that is great to 400yds. When the new one gets here I'll run that one and plan to try the Barnes Max-range 130gr and the Hornady 130gr
SP-interlock.
 
I would be happy to answer and ?s you have.  But so that we don't hijack this thread, post the question under a new thread in the reloading section.  You will get alot of other people helping out too if you do.  PM sent.
To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crispycritter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 23:42
Originally posted by antleraddiction antleraddiction wrote:

 
 
All new scopes will flop this year, at least in the US, the weekend hunter can't afford the "newest and best thing" anymore with the stagnant US economy.  Bushnell is catering to hunters that still have money, an area they will fail miserably in!  My 2 cents.
 
 
I'm not so sure. The only competition for the 6500 is the Swaro. With the prices of Euro glass going through the roof, I imagine most of the "newest and best thing" crowd will give the 6500 a second look. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
I agree on the Thumbs%20Down for dropping the 3x9 4200. If they had to do something, they should've gave it more eye relief.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 02:14
Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by bricat bricat wrote:

"Stick with Zeiss - It's OH SO NICE"  Big%20Smile
......................A low powered variable DGR Zeiss 30mm scope starts at a grand!.................The DGR low powered variable Leupy VX3 is $399!.................The Leupy will do the same thing as the Zeiss, whether on the range, in Alaska, in Africa, or anywhere else and under any conditions!..................  
.....................A straight tubed scope is my 1st preference! That`s why I mentioned the above with such a big price difference.
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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 02:48
Another scope with 6x erector is IOR, so Swaro is not Elite 6500's only competition.  Still Elite 6500 are the only scopes with the 6x erector in the under $1000 category.  Also, they expect to add more scopes to the line-up, such as a straight tube 1-6.5x scope. 

Existing Elite 6500 models could actually do very well with long range shooters on a budget.  Their weight is actually not all that high for their magnification ranges.  Also, you have to keep in mind that they do have a unique combination of features (especially for their price range): 16x and 30x top end magnifications, 6.5x erector, 4" of eye relief, 80+ MOA of adjustment on all currently available models.  Can you name another scope with the same combination of features anywhere near the same price or of the same weight?  Also, keep in mind that all current models are 13.5" long, which is actually quite compact.

All in all, I think it is not a bad idea for Bushnell to add a higher end scope to their line-up.   While I can not predict how well it will do in the market, I do expect to try one.  I was nto all that hot on these scopes when they were announced, but after playing with them at SHOT I changed my opinion.

As for a low range variables,  I suspect that they are comfortable with a 1.5-4.5x32 1" tube scope in their Elite 3200 lineup (which has 6.3" mounting length, by the way) and 1.25-4x24 30mm scope in their Elite 4200 line-up (with 6.9" mounting length). 

I have a 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 and find it an exceptionally nice scope.   It either has beefed up internals or somewhat oversize lenses.  The construction seems a bit different from other Elite 4200s.

I suspect straight-tube 1" scopes are a fairly small market.  So far I found exactly three people who are truly fond of the scopes of this type: Big Squeeze, Wally and me.  Wally has a Sightron S2 Big Sky 1.25-5x20 that is a superb piece in need of a thicker reticle.  Big Squeeze is leaning toward a Leupy VX-3, I think.  I am trying to petition SIghtron to put a thicker reticle into their Big SKy model.  Currently these are the 1" straight tube scopes available on the market (from worst to best):

Leupold VX-1 1-4x20
Pentax Gameseeker 1.75-5x20
Weaver V3 1-3x20
Nikon 1.5-4.5x20 (may have been discontinued)
Leupold VX-2 1-4x20
Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x20
Sightron S2 Big Sky 1.25-5x20

OK.  Seven different models covering a price range from ~$100 to ~$450 and roughly three potential customers.  If I were Bushnell I would not enter this market segment either.

ILya
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tahqua View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 08:28
[/QUOTE] ......................A low powered variable DGR Zeiss 30mm scope starts at a grand!.................The DGR low powered variable Leupy VX3 is $399!.................The Leupy will do the same thing as the Zeiss, whether on the range, in Alaska, in Africa, or anywhere else and under any conditions!..................  [/QUOTE]
 
I disagree. My 1.1-4x24 Kahles is better in low light than my 1.5-5 Leupold by a substantial margin. The Kahles has very similar performance to the Zeiss.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bricat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 08:34
Go ahead T, Preach it!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 09:47
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

[/QUOT
......................A low powered variable DGR Zeiss 30mm scope starts at a grand!.................The DGR low powered variable Leupy VX3 is $399!.................The Leupy will do the same thing as the Zeiss, whether on the range, in Alaska, in Africa, or anywhere else and under any conditions!..................  [/QUOTE]
 
I disagree. My 1.1-4x24 Kahles is better in low light than my 1.5-5 Leupold by a substantial margin. The Kahles has very similar performance to the Zeiss.
 
[/QUOTE] .........................Don`t plan on using my 375 for any low light hunting. No real need there to do so with my hunts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 09:55
I need to add it is not just the brightness where a high end scope helps. Because of the better contrast and resolution I can see branches and other obstructions with the Kahles that I just can't pick up with my Leupold. For the bear hunting I do this makes a big difference. I have deflected shoots in the thick stuff before and seeing potential obstructions to a clean shot helps.
I really like my old Leupold and it works. I certainly will not part with it, but I like the Kahles a lot more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 10:19
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I need to add it is not just the brightness where a high end scope helps. Because of the better contrast and resolution I can see branches and other obstructions with the Kahles that I just can't pick up with my Leupold. For the bear hunting I do this makes a big difference. I have deflected shoots in the thick stuff before and seeing potential obstructions to a clean shot helps.
I really like my old Leupold and it works. I certainly will not part with it, but I like the Kahles a lot more.
..............................Is your Leupy the older Vari model?............From what I understand, the new VX3`s are more of an improvement. The new VX3`s may have closed the gap more between them and the Kahles as far as low lite and contrast are concerned!....Possible?
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tahqua View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 10:39
It is a VariX-III. I have used the VX-III in 3.5-10 and 1.75-6. They are close to 4200 and Monarchs but no where near the Kahles. There is a quite a difference.
I did a range report on my .375 and noted that my friend could see quite a difference when going from his 3-9 4200 to my 1.1-4x24 Kahles. It is in the forum members tests and reviews
One thing for sure, a VX-III cannot touch the Kahles C for contrast, resolution and low light performance. The same goes for the Bushnell 4200.
I will continue to buy Bushnell's as I know their 4200's are excellent for the money. I may try a 6500 some day, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 12:55
Tahqua is spot on with his take on the Kahles 1.1-4x24.  Optical quality does make a difference.  Even with modest magnification, like 4x, it is remarkable how well you can see if the optical quality is good. 

One important parameter that people do not seem to pay much attention to is depth of focus.  It depends primarily on magnification, but also on the optical design.  With low magnification scopes, the depth of field should typically allow you to see if there are any twigs or other small obstructions between you and the target.  However, most low magnification scopes out there do not have the optics to cleanly resolve these small features.  Kahles 1.1-4x does.  Leupy 1.5-5x20, while a nice scope in its right, does not exactly set any resolution benchmarks.  Even of the moderately priced scopes, you'll see Sightron S2 Big Sky 1.25-5x20 and Elite 4200 1.25-4x24 perform notably better than the Leupy.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crispycritter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 13:23
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Another scope with 6x erector is IOR, so Swaro is not Elite 6500's only competition. 

ILya
 
 
 
 
I stand corrected. My bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 17:51
                                                                     
 
                                                                          Behead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 22:28
Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

                                                                     
 
                                                                          Behead
Hey Mr. Ed!!!.....................We need more emoticons!............We are wearing the best ones out!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 07:46
    Wabbit Season                 
 
 
                          Ed   Machine%20Gun               Bunny    Squeezer       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 08:12
I think its going to be great for varmint shooting, a 4 to 30 for pdogs is a dream scope
 
Duce   Evil%20Black%20Rifle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 10:10
Originally posted by bricat bricat wrote:

Go ahead T, Preach it!!!
 
Amen Brother!
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 12:22
Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

    Wabbit Season                 
 
 
                          Ed   Machine%20Gun               Bunny    Squeezer       
.............PIGGY SEASON!!!!.........Squeeze!Sharp%20Shooter         Pig Ed!....................
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