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My BEEF w/ Bushnell!!! |
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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I would be happy to answer and ?s you have. But so that we don't hijack this thread, post the question under a new thread in the reloading section. You will get alot of other people helping out too if you do. PM sent.
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
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crispycritter
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/30/2004 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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I'm not so sure. The only competition for the 6500 is the Swaro. With the prices of Euro glass going through the roof, I imagine most of the "newest and best thing" crowd will give the 6500 a second look. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
I agree on the for dropping the 3x9 4200. If they had to do something, they should've gave it more eye relief.
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Another scope with 6x erector is IOR, so Swaro is not Elite 6500's only competition. Still Elite 6500 are the only scopes with the 6x erector in the under $1000 category. Also, they expect to add more scopes to the line-up, such as a straight tube 1-6.5x scope.
Existing Elite 6500 models could actually do very well with long range shooters on a budget. Their weight is actually not all that high for their magnification ranges. Also, you have to keep in mind that they do have a unique combination of features (especially for their price range): 16x and 30x top end magnifications, 6.5x erector, 4" of eye relief, 80+ MOA of adjustment on all currently available models. Can you name another scope with the same combination of features anywhere near the same price or of the same weight? Also, keep in mind that all current models are 13.5" long, which is actually quite compact. All in all, I think it is not a bad idea for Bushnell to add a higher end scope to their line-up. While I can not predict how well it will do in the market, I do expect to try one. I was nto all that hot on these scopes when they were announced, but after playing with them at SHOT I changed my opinion. As for a low range variables, I suspect that they are comfortable with a 1.5-4.5x32 1" tube scope in their Elite 3200 lineup (which has 6.3" mounting length, by the way) and 1.25-4x24 30mm scope in their Elite 4200 line-up (with 6.9" mounting length). I have a 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 and find it an exceptionally nice scope. It either has beefed up internals or somewhat oversize lenses. The construction seems a bit different from other Elite 4200s. I suspect straight-tube 1" scopes are a fairly small market. So far I found exactly three people who are truly fond of the scopes of this type: Big Squeeze, Wally and me. Wally has a Sightron S2 Big Sky 1.25-5x20 that is a superb piece in need of a thicker reticle. Big Squeeze is leaning toward a Leupy VX-3, I think. I am trying to petition SIghtron to put a thicker reticle into their Big SKy model. Currently these are the 1" straight tube scopes available on the market (from worst to best): Leupold VX-1 1-4x20 Pentax Gameseeker 1.75-5x20 Weaver V3 1-3x20 Nikon 1.5-4.5x20 (may have been discontinued) Leupold VX-2 1-4x20 Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x20 Sightron S2 Big Sky 1.25-5x20 OK. Seven different models covering a price range from ~$100 to ~$450 and roughly three potential customers. If I were Bushnell I would not enter this market segment either. ILya |
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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[/QUOTE] ......................A low powered variable DGR Zeiss 30mm scope starts at a grand!.................The DGR low powered variable Leupy VX3 is $399!.................The Leupy will do the same thing as the Zeiss, whether on the range, in Alaska, in Africa, or anywhere else and under any conditions!.................. [/QUOTE]
I disagree. My 1.1-4x24 Kahles is better in low light than my 1.5-5 Leupold by a substantial margin. The Kahles has very similar performance to the Zeiss.
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bricat
Optics Master Joined: April/24/2007 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
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Go ahead T, Preach it!!!
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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I disagree. My 1.1-4x24 Kahles is better in low light than my 1.5-5 Leupold by a substantial margin. The Kahles has very similar performance to the Zeiss.
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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I need to add it is not just the brightness where a high end scope helps. Because of the better contrast and resolution I can see branches and other obstructions with the Kahles that I just can't pick up with my Leupold. For the bear hunting I do this makes a big difference. I have deflected shoots in the thick stuff before and seeing potential obstructions to a clean shot helps.
I really like my old Leupold and it works. I certainly will not part with it, but I like the Kahles a lot more.
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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It is a VariX-III. I have used the VX-III in 3.5-10 and 1.75-6. They are close to 4200 and Monarchs but no where near the Kahles. There is a quite a difference.
I did a range report on my .375 and noted that my friend could see quite a difference when going from his 3-9 4200 to my 1.1-4x24 Kahles. It is in the forum members tests and reviews
One thing for sure, a VX-III cannot touch the Kahles C for contrast, resolution and low light performance. The same goes for the Bushnell 4200.
I will continue to buy Bushnell's as I know their 4200's are excellent for the money. I may try a 6500 some day, too.
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Tahqua is spot on with his take on the Kahles 1.1-4x24. Optical quality does make a difference. Even with modest magnification, like 4x, it is remarkable how well you can see if the optical quality is good.
One important parameter that people do not seem to pay much attention to is depth of focus. It depends primarily on magnification, but also on the optical design. With low magnification scopes, the depth of field should typically allow you to see if there are any twigs or other small obstructions between you and the target. However, most low magnification scopes out there do not have the optics to cleanly resolve these small features. Kahles 1.1-4x does. Leupy 1.5-5x20, while a nice scope in its right, does not exactly set any resolution benchmarks. Even of the moderately priced scopes, you'll see Sightron S2 Big Sky 1.25-5x20 and Elite 4200 1.25-4x24 perform notably better than the Leupy. ILya |
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crispycritter
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/30/2004 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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I stand corrected. My bad.
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Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
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Wabbit Season
Ed Squeezer
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Duce
Optics Master Joined: September/19/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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I think its going to be great for varmint shooting, a 4 to 30 for pdogs is a dream scope
Duce
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Duce
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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Amen Brother!
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take em!
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
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