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How would you have acted? |
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yellowdog
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 432 |
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Posted: February/27/2008 at 18:53 |
This guy acted within the law, but I think I would have handled it differently. Let's here how some of you would have addressed this situation. http://www.click2houston.com/news/14615114/detail.html
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silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
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How was how this guy acted legal? |
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
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texashunter
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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This is very near where I live, In Texas you are allowed to shoot someone that is on your neighbors property if they ask you to
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texashunter
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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(TEXAS) Protection of the Property of Others "A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief." "Also, a person is justified in using force or deadly force if he reasonably believes that the third person has requested his protection of property; or he has a legal duty to protect the property; or the third person whose property he is protecting is his spouse, parent or child." |
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silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
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Texas law is differant than most states. With that said the owner of the property did not give him permission to act on his behalf. The dispatcher told him not to.
Now, I do not want to see anything happen to the guy... Yet even it seem to me that even Texas law did not permit his actions. I do believe that a Texas jurry will not convict him.
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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I have somewhat mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, if this happened a lot more often, it would eventually stop happening altogether!
On the other hand, I kinda hate to see somebody get blown away for burglary.
Paralyzed for life, maybe, but not killed...
Oh well, nobody ASKED them to break into the house.
If the media would help make an example out of them, they wouldn't have died in vain, either. "See, kids, this is what happens when you steal stuff."
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ckk1106
Optics Master Joined: December/14/2007 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1439 |
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I would not have acted in the way that this guy did, but I'm not disappointed with the outcome. Having been burglarized once, it is probably one of the worst feelings, and I have no empathy for the guys.
Or should that be sympathy? Edited by ckk1106 - February/27/2008 at 23:05 |
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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Death is the ultimate penalty, the bible says, "An eye for an eye" and The State of Texas agrees (more criminals are put to death in Texas a year than any other state by a large margin). In this case I don't think the punishment fit the crime, had they been apprehended and convicted the death penalty would not have been considered.....but on the other hand how was the shooter to know that his neighbors were not dead inside their house. In a society where taxi drivers are killed in cold blood for $20. and people are killed for their Nike shoes it is reasonable to assume the worse case scenario will be the outcome of any petty crime.
I have ZERO sympathy for any criminal but I must say due to the 911 operators communications and it not being my property, I would have refrained from using deadly force in this particular circumstance.
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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I won't kill unless I'm in a position that would warrant deadly force, that being said if I saw one of them was armed and they turned to confront me, or I saw a hostage situation, Ol Trigger Finger gets real happy............
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An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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yellowdog
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 432 |
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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, then we will gladly have you stand in front of them.
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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I believe what the man did is morally correct, but in the state of NC, he would be indited and probably convicted. I have a cw permit and you can only use deadly force if you or your neighbor is in fear of your life. Ridiculous, I know, but that is the law.
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yellowdog
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 432 |
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It was also stated later on that same radio show that one of the criminals did have a pistol.
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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, then we will gladly have you stand in front of them.
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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It becomes fairly clear cut if one of the criminals was armed when he confronted them. I spent a lot of years as a Texas Peace Officer and while Texas law says you can use deadly force for criminal mischief during the night time etc. - - I will tell you that deadly force is only justifiable if you are defending your life or someone elses life. I can also tell you that when the adrenalin kicks in during a confrontation with a burglar you have very little time to plan your actions and the reasonableness of shooting someone is measured by multiple factors.
Probably the most important factor is where did the act occur. If you are inside your home and someone breaks in especially during the nighttime when you are likely to be there you are reasonable to think that they are there to hurt you. Most residential burglars hit during the day and break into unoccupied businesses at night. In this case the man put himself at risk by doing what he thought was right rather than doing the safe thing - observe and report. It makes him look bad in the media that he did not do what the dispatcher told him to do because they advised the safest course of action. The fact is that this man was inside his house and by the nature of the situation he felt threatened. If the burglars broke into the neighbors house they may now be on their way to break into his house. If the neighbor asked him to watch their property while they were away and he attempted to make a citizens arrest during an inprogress felony - I dont think he will be in any trouble. Texas law probably still allows you to shoot a fleeing fellon - I shot a fleeing burglar in a high speed pursuit running over 100 mph with an 870 riot gun with my left hand using buckshot in Texas. (He was an immediate danger to me and to others.) It sure drops your burglary rate. The determining factor though is if the perp is an immediate danger to you or to others. At the time he was crossing a mile long two way concrete bridge and he had to be stopped before he hit someone head on. Failing to act would result in the high likelyhood of some innocent person being killed in a head on collision. Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/28/2008 at 12:32 |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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I personally would have a hard time living with myself if I killed someone over some "tangible thing(s)" especially if it was my neighbors. It would be hard enough knowing you killed someone even if it was to protect your own life or the life of someone else. Its something you would have to think about and live with the rest of your life, it would have to be tough.
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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How do you know he didnt go out there and confront the burglar and attempt to make a citizens arrest - legal in a felony or breach of the peace to detain and hold them until police arrived- at which time the armed burglar drew a pistol on him and he was forced to defend his own life. I mean really now he could have shot them out the window without warning and without any personal risk which to me suggests he did not just go out and intentionally gun them down as the media would have you believe.
Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/28/2008 at 12:48 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Here is the audio of the whole thing. The guy wanted to kill them, if
he just would have stayed it the house nothing would have happened and
the cops would have got them. There was absolutely no need to put
himself at risk over the neighbors property. In the audio it sounds
like he just walk right out and shot them.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3d_1195171937 |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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It doesnt take very long for one man to say Freeze and another to draw a gun on him.
He can come live next door to me.
Eaven the dispatcher added to him having a reasonable belief that if he confronted them the burglars would shoot him by telling him if he goes out that door hes going to get shot.
If all he wanted to do was to shoot them he could have easily done that without going outside at all. He was unwilling to let the bad guy get away after seeing them commit a felony - I've been in that same position in Texas multiple times. Back when we expected personal responsibility of people along with that came some sense public responsibility looking out for your fellow man especially your neighbors. Under the hide in your house mind set it would sure be hard to get a posse together to go after the bad guys. Thats OK wait long enough the bad guys will come to you they already outnumber law enforcement and are more heavily armed. Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/28/2008 at 13:51 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Regardless of that he did not need to put himself in the situation in the first place. The biggest factor in winning a fight is to avoid it in the first place, he wanted a confrontation and he wanted to fight. You can hear that throughout all the audio, from the beginning he intended to walk out and get into it with them.
I am not saying they did not get what they deserved, all I am saying is what the guy did was unnecessary and stupid on his part, he could have gotten himself shot or killed over the neighbors tangible property. In the end he won and good for him, but it could have easily turned out different. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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On the tape, you can hear him telling the dispatcher that they came at him in the yard. If that is true, he is justified in shooting since he was fearing for his life. Now, he shouldn't have gone out of the house. I understand what he was feeling, but as the dispatcher said, it isn't worth shooting someone over stolen property. I don't, however, feel bad that there are two less criminals in the world.
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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He wanted them stopped - apprehended - taken into custody. He felt a personal obligation to arrest and detain them pending the arrival of police. Had he merely wanted to shoot the burglars he could have done so from cover without risk.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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