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Load consistency

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Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Load consistency
    Posted: February/25/2008 at 06:30

This is a load I have for a 300Wm. Its with a 165 grain nosler Ab. I pushing it with 76 Grains of H4831sc and fed 210m primers and Remington brass.

 

I had a few box’s loaded up from a very accurate load I was thinking was around 3000FPS. I have shot this load for a year now with out testing it thru a chrony. I was able to get my hands on one to see how close my load was to all my research. I took 2 shells from each box I had loaded. This is what I came up with. I think it is pretty good and or close enough to what I was after.

 Let me know your thoughts if I can get closer or should I just let it go and be happy with it?

1.    3064

2.    3079

3.    3110

4.    3115

5.    3079

6.    3062

7.    3045

8.    3044

9.    2958

10.  3039

11.  3082

12.  3073

 

If I have done my math right the average FPS is 3059

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Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 07:03
158fps extreme spread.
Were it mine I'd be tempted to get that down to under 20fps.
 
How far was the chronograph screen from the muzzle when you measured these?
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 07:09
 Mike,
 
I had it set up 15 feet fromt he muzzle.
 
When I was doing this I was shooting groups at 100yards. the groups were pretty good. I took the camera to take a few pictuers but I broke it as I do most everything else.
 
Do you have any sugeston on how to get this down to 20fps spread? I always weight my powder twice on 2 different scales so It is exactly 76 grains.If I go up do you think it will close the gap?
 
Thanks for your input.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:24
are these loads from two different cans of powder???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:28

It was all from the same batch.

all loaded same day same temps. all shots was 5 minutes apart.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:34
were the primers from the same batch?? 158fps is a big spread, the ambiant temp must of changed or something that a pretty big spread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:36
Primers was from the same batch/box.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:38
that 2958fps tells me something  is missing, you shouldnt have dropped off that bad
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Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:46

yeah Thats what I was thinking and the 3110 abd 3115 seemed like a big jump to me also.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:53
yeah to me it looks like you should be in that 3045-3065 area
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 09:02
I agree with Pyro, the spread is a bit wide.
Maybe the problem is with the brass. Have you tried outside neck turning to get a more even crimping?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 09:13

8,

I haven't tryed that yet. The brass has been shot 8 times or so. I will try some new brass and see where it leads me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 15:14
How was your tempature spread during that day?  Three shots threw your standard devation off.  Otherwise it did not look that bad.  How much time between shots?
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Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 15:16
It was a 60 degree day. I shot from 9am untill 12 pm.the temps stayed the same that day for somereason. I waited 5 minutes between each shot to let everything settle down and take my notes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ckk1106 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 18:44
Are those chronographs that accurate?  Are there some that are more accurate than others, or are they all about the same.  I know that some cost more.  Just wondering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 18:51
I'd move the chrono back to about 25 feet, you may have been reading exhuast gas and residual particulate matter from the barrel at 15 feet.
 
165 grain for a 300 is on the light side.
 
Here's what  i do, it may work for you;
 
All brass same mfg.
 
When sizing. I pay attention to the pull out force of the expander ball through the case neck.  A simple "how does this feel" from case to case.  Discard any that offer little  resistance when compared to the group as a whole.
 
All cases trimmed to the same length.
 
Take your press, measure and dies, along with prepped and primed brass to the range.
Have your measure set at some predetermined weight.  You should know what an increase of 1 increment on your measure corresponds to for the powder you've chosen.
Start throwing charges and shooting until you get :
A.     Pressure indicators
B.     Close to your velocity
 
Throw a group of three and shoot for velocity.  Shoot these carefully on paper, record the results.  No real need to wait 5 minutes between shots, although the chronograph will not get bored if you do.
 
If this gets close to a decent extreme spread, bump the charge up about 2-3 tenths grain and repeat.  You may also need to go back just a bit and repeat.
 
Somewhere in there in about 30 minutes work you'll have a load with a decent velocity, accuracy, and chrono numbers.  ( I remain alittle dubious about that light  a bullet in front of that much powder though).
 
When you go home, throw and weigh 100 charges.  Take the average as your charge weight.  What you will have done is to develop a load that has a charge weight tolerance of
+/- 1.5 to 2/10th grain of powder, and will shoot accurately.
When you weigh each charge the charge error will have been cut by 1/2 over your range development, making the resultant load very accurate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 19:18
What brass are you using, is it the same lot, and how many times has it been reloaded, have you weighed the cases or turned any of the necks? What is a decent group size?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2008 at 07:22
Thanks Mike, I'll give it a shot.
 
Belt,
The brass is all rem brass from same lot number.It has been shot 8 times. I have not turned any necks. A good size group I'm getting a dime will cover at 100yards.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2008 at 14:27
If you can cover your 100yd. group with a dime why care what the chronograph says! Which is better, consistant sub MOA groups or consistant velocity? As long as your getting enough velocity to get your desired results, then I think that accuracy is your main goal. A deer, groundhog, or X-ring doesn't know the difference between getting hit with a 168gr bthp traveling at 2900fps or 3050fps; all they know is that they got hit. I would trust the results on paper before I would trust a chronograph. If you can get tighter groups by getting more consistant readings on a chronograph then go for it. If you get more consistant velocities but your groups open up, then what have you accomplished? A chronograph is only a tool to help you achieve accuracy, not define it. I may be a grasshopper here, but I've been a firearms instructor for 30 years, a reloader for 34, and a cheapskate for 50. Thats my opinion; feel free to ignore it.Bucky 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2008 at 14:55
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

If you can cover your 100yd. group with a dime why care what the chronograph says! Which is better, consistant sub MOA groups or consistant velocity? As long as your getting enough velocity to get your desired results, then I think that accuracy is your main goal. A deer, groundhog, or X-ring doesn't know the difference between getting hit with a 168gr bthp traveling at 2900fps or 3050fps; all they know is that they got hit. I would trust the results on paper before I would trust a chronograph. If you can get tighter groups by getting more consistant readings on a chronograph then go for it. If you get more consistant velocities but your groups open up, then what have you accomplished? A chronograph is only a tool to help you achieve accuracy, not define it. I may be a grasshopper here, but I've been a firearms instructor for 30 years, a reloader for 34, and a cheapskate for 50. Thats my opinion; feel free to ignore it.Bucky 
 
beltfed welcome to the OT forum. 
I agree. when I started this load i was looking for 3000fps.I have shot ot for a few years and had no probles at all with hutning/targets or anything else. I was just wundering about the spread. But it shoots great groups so I might let it B. I have also notice that going up 2 grains on powder my POI dose NOT change at all @ 100 and my groups stay the same.I'm not sure how but it dose.
 
Thanks
For all the info GUYS.
 


Edited by Bigdaddy0381 - February/26/2008 at 15:03
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