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fixed powers and low magnification

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 13:11
Jsimoneaud View Drop Down
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why are so many of ya'll so fond of fixed power scopes? and low power scopes like 2-7x32? isn't 32 objective really small and not going to transmit much light at dusk and dawn?

I guess I could answer my own question by saying it's cause I am a deer hunter and thats all I need scopes for, and ya'll do a lot of range shooting and maybe match shooting. I know I have read that a lot of ya'll shoot varmits, so maybe that type of scope is better for those types of shooting? we don't have many varmits or wide open ranges here in LA.

 

when I shoot I dial my scope up to the highest magnification. my thought is that I can hold steadier on a high setting, which would make for a more accurate shot.

 

correct me if I am all wrong here. Still waiting for my JB book to come in. so my learning process is still moving kinda slow.

 

thanks -js

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 13:33
Tip69 View Drop Down
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Fixed power scopes are less complicated..... so less to go wrong...... and are usually brighter.  I set my 3-9 to 4 when I'm hunting and only change/zoom if I don't have my binocs close by.  I wish they made a scope that just had those two powers........ but that's probablly not feasible.

 

I'm not sure I agree with your statement..... "I can hold steadier on a high setting, which would make for a more accurate shot."  Usually, higher settings "shows" how "unsteady" I really am.  Maybe I just misunderstand your meaning.  The higher setting allows me to see a more precise "point" to aim.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 13:39
Jsimoneaud View Drop Down
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yes you have to excuse me, I am cajun, born that way, alot of people don't understand what I am trying to say, so I have to reword myself often.

 

when shooting at high magnifications I can see that I am more shakey, but I don't pull the trigger until the crosshairs have stoped moving and are exactly were I want them. I have all my trigger pulls lowered to the lowest by law or the lowest my gun smith will go.  my thought on this is at lower power setting you are still moving the crosshairs just as much as at high power settings, but you can't see it - it's not so visible at low power settings.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 15:55
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Originally posted by Jsimoneaud Jsimoneaud wrote:

yes you have to excuse me, I am cajun, born that way, a lot of people don't understand what I am trying to say, so I have to reword myself often.

 

when shooting at high magnifications I can see that I am more shaky, but I don't pull the trigger until the crosshairs have stoped moving and are exactly were I want them. I have all my trigger pulls lowered to the lowest by law or the lowest my gun smith will go.  my thought on this is at lower power setting you are still moving the crosshairs just as much as at high power settings, but you can't see it - it's not so visible at low power settings.



A lot of people can actually hold the rifle steadier with a lower magnification scope.  At high magnification when you can see the crosshair jumping around you subconsciously try to correct for the motion which ultimately results in holding the gun less steadily.  At lower magnification when I am not distracted by all the motion I can concentrate on holding the gun steadily instead of fighting my own subconscious.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 16:11
tahqua View Drop Down
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I agree, about 4X is the maximum for me off hand shooting. At 6X the movement is too noticeable and maybe there is an element of over compensation involved. Breath, hold and squeeze doesn't work for me at that power. On the variables that I can get down to 2.5X or less, my off hand shooting is much better.

A 2-7X32 set at 6X gives me all the sight picture I need at dawn/dusk. Even on my higher power variables I tend to set my power at around 6. It seems as though there is this "sweet spot" where exit pupil, twilight factor and whatever else there is seems to come together.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 16:45
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In most big game huting situations, 6X really gives you all the magnification you will ever need for the majority of shots you should ever ethically attempt in field conditions.  The objective diameter and brightness is relative to magnification.  As you go up in magnification, the image gets dimmer, so in order to get the same brightness as a lower magnification scope, you have to go up in objective lens diameter.  This is due to what's known as exit pupil, which is the dia of the column of light transmitted to the eye through a scope, and is the objective lens dia divided by the magnification.  Lens coating and the optic's design play a very important role in perceived image brightness as well, so the exit pupil comparison has the greatest influence when comparing optics of equivalent quality. 

 

With too much magnification, all else being equal, your field of view is reduced as well, so it's more difficult to find your target in the scope.  Also, a higher magnification scope will usually be longer, heavier, and bulkier than a low magnification scope, which at best looks out of proportion on some rifles, and at worst, screws up the balance of your gun.  A huge objective lens diameter may require high or extra high mounts to clear, which can result in poor cheek weld to your rifle when shooting.  It's best when you can shoulder your rifle quickly and the scope image immediately comes into view without having to shift your head into an unnatural position.  You'll shoot better this way.  Plus, if you don't really need the extra magnification, why spend the extra $?  Often, you can also get higher quality optics in lower magnification for the same price as a higher magnification lesser quality scope.  Optical quality is just as important as magnification in being able to see detail, often more so.



Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 23:27
www.technika.nu View Drop Down
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High or low magnification off hand is really only about practice and what you are used to.

Mostly competitors in running target competitions are using realtively high magnification scopes when they compete.

I used when I was active a Leupold 12X fixed with premeier reticles extra dots.

 

Nickels 7-12X is common and mostly run them on 12X, leupold 18X is common to.

 

But for mostly people that doesent practice off hand and running target that much 4-6X is enough.

 

But competition is one thing, hunting is another.

I rarely shoot on competitions on less magnifications than 8-12X nowadays, but while hunting i often uses aimpont as the distances are so close and the speed of the animal is so fast.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 08:56
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JS, I also hunt in Louisiana, mostly the Basin. Of my 2 primary rifles, one carries a 3x w/20mm objective and the other a 4x w/32mm objective. I have yet to have a problem with light transmission at the ranges I shoot (25 ft.- 70 yds.). My bolt action has a 3-9 w/38mm objective and I have killed a deer at better than 200 yds on only 4x at dusk.

Keep you hand off the mag. adjuster!!!!! When shooting a deer focus on the chest, then the 1st and 2nd ribs, and finally between the 2 hairs between the ribs. Make your intended target as small as possible and you will be amazed how well your shooting improves. I don't like higher magnification because once the shot has been let loose, the lower mags will give a larger sight picture making it easier to see what you intended target does once the gun goes off. You may need a 2nd shot and with the mag cranked all the way up it's a lot harder to get back on target.

 

Good hunting my friend.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 12:46
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Even though the trend may be changing, you would be surprised at the fixed power sniper scopes for military use around the world.  ( 6x seemed to come up often).

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 13:08
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over scoped
over gunned
can't track
can't stalk
can't shoot except off a bench
we have met the enemy and they live on OT

As Finn (who was a HUNTER) said: "A big game animal too far away to be shot with a 3X scope is too far away to shoot at." (the hidden message was "get closer you dunce."

While I like my 4-16 S&B, 6.5-20s Loopies and Monarchs etc. I could have killed every big game animal I have ever shot with a 1-4 variable or a M8 3X or a Lyman Alaskan. Nothing has changed since Elmer, Jack and Warren walked to country except hunters have been sold a bill of goods that technolgy is a substitute for HUNTING skills.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 14:02
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Well sayed, Root.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 14:35
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Root, you stated, "Nothing has changed since Elmer, Jack and Warren walked to country except hunters have been sold a bill of goods that technolgy is a substitute for HUNTING skills."

 

I disagree with that in one aspect......... people don't have the time nor the $$ needed to develope those skills these days!  I'm not trying to be an a$$hole when I say You grew up in a different era than those that are doing the kind of "hunting" you don't like did.  I would love to hunt Elk the way you describe, but I can't.  I got my only chance to Elk hunt back in 1999.  I was raising and selling Pointing Labs and sold a Guy from Vail, CO a pup.  He later invited me out and I accepted.  The damn license was $250..... now its $450.00........ I relied on his skills, which were really Bow season skills and we didn't even see Elk.  Probably because they saw us first or they weren't even in the same county as us.  If for some reason I would have had a chance to shoot at a Big Boy from 400 yds away.... if I would have been able to keep my aim steady, I would have taken a chance!

 

I have not pulled the trigger on a Whitetail for the past 2 years.  Didn't see anything old enough this year and last year I couldn't keep the gun steady enough for a shot at a real nice buck that was 250 - 300 yds away.... So I didn't shoot.  But I get to hunt Whitetails every year! 

 

Times have changed... and not for the better.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 14:55
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They would have the time if they were not chasing the almighty $, sending their wife to work and babysitting their kids with a TV set until they become dopers.
The consumer society is just as widespread in hunting as anywhere else. Who can hunt without an ATV, 3000 dollar rifle capped by a 2000 $ scope etc etc. To buy the toys means lots of Overtime, short vacations etc. "Greed is good".
I admire your hunting ethics.
I'll bet most folks drive cars that cost more than 5 guided hunts and that an 84 Impala would get folks to work as well as the muti-zillion $ SUVs seen everywhere. If you don't set the priorities the merchants of greed will set them for you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 15:06
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If you look at the prices on optics 50 years ago you will find out that they wasent any cheaper than the guns...

So relatively, the prices on quality optics havent changed much if anything at all.

 

Nowadays optics are cheaper than ever, and you can get really decent stuff at very low money.

But if you spend the money an Alaskan in G&H mount costed 1940 I think you will get a pretty decent Zeiss in german swingmounts today.

 

 

Regards Technika



Edited by www.technika.nu
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 15:09
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Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

over scoped
over gunned
can't track
can't stalk
can't shoot except off a bench
we have met the enemy and they live on OT.

 

Root, that's a neat slogan, but why the insults?  The man simply asked for advice about the advantages of lower powered scopes.

 

If we take your premise about technology to its logical conclusion, could we not say all of us, including you, have embraced technology in your hunting?  If you hunt with anything other than a spear, self-made longbow from osage orange and sinew backing, sinew bowstring, carved wooden arrows, and flint broadheads, you too have bowed to technology...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 15:10
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A used 700 30-06 and 3-9 Rifleman is a $550 deal. That's a lot less than a Blaser and a Swaro.Save the working man about 100 hours of overtime that could be spent hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 09:08
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Rootmanslim:

 

Do you realize that your posts show a distinct socialist leaning?  In America, you can buy what you want to buy not what will just get you by.  It's all about choice.  Yes every company has a marketing department but so what?  "Greed merchant" sounds so Chavezesque.

 

PS thanks for maintaining that freedom with your service to this country.

 

maine(r) 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 13:40
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I assume you missed ENRON, Global Crossings, Gas price collusion etc.? I'd love to believe that makers of guns scope and ATVs are of a higher moral standard BUT..........

There are choices and stupid choices. I'm all in favor of crack, meth and heroin dispensers FREE on every corner. In a few years the dummies would all be dead, the drug cartels out of business and the population reduced. A few bumps along the way but we got thru WW II so I assume we'd survuve this adjustment as well.
HINT that is not Socialism!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 14:12
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Originally posted by Jsimoneaud Jsimoneaud wrote:

why are so many of ya'll so fond of fixed power scopes? and low power scopes like 2-7x32? isn't 32 objective really small and not going to transmit much light at dusk and dawn?

I guess I could answer my own question by saying it's cause I am a deer hunter and thats all I need scopes for, and ya'll do a lot of range shooting and maybe match shooting. I know I have read that a lot of ya'll shoot varmits, so maybe that type of scope is better for those types of shooting? we don't have many varmits or wide open ranges here in LA.

 

when I shoot I dial my scope up to the highest magnification. my thought is that I can hold steadier on a high setting, which would make for a more accurate shot.

 

correct me if I am all wrong here. Still waiting for my JB book to come in. so my learning process is still moving kinda slow.

 

thanks -js

 

There are many factors that can cause problems in a riflescope. While purchasing a scope on a budget the safest way to get to go about it is to choose a low power scope with as little features as possible and of the highest quality as possible. A big mistake I see alot recently is people trying to get alot of features on a budget and they truly end up with a inferior scope because of this. A poor executed illuminated reticle is useless, a poor executed ranging reticle is useless, 1/8 or 1/16 moa movement is useless in hunting conditions. For example high power scopes of lesser quality produce a poor image as magnification is increased therefore are usless weight hauled around. A good quality scope can produce a better image and enough light gathering with objectives as little as 20MM vs a poor scope with a 56MM obj. Well rounded scopes are very expensive compared to the budget presented by alot of new posters here and thefore you see alot of savy members here recommending the highest quality possible scope that will get the job done and not be a liability to the user in alot of other ways. Believe it or not some of the well known brands that are considered quality by a few here canot even get thier parallax settings right on a fixed paralax scope.

when I recommend a scope here I evaluate the budget and try to present the best scope for the money with al of the above factored in.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 19:56
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Good points, SVD, especially about the trend toward trying to get a bunch of bells and whistles on a budget scope!

 

...except that the value of advice has nothing to do with the number of posts here (i.e. "new posters here") or any other internet forum for that matter, as a high % of us have been passionate about this hobby for some time before discovering OT.  It's a mistake to think that just because someone is new here that their input is less valuable or that they aren't "savvy" about the topics.  Even the savvyiest of savvy posters all have their own preferences and biases.  There are a lot of factors with regards to optics that are very subjective, where there really is no clear-cut right or wrong answer.  Sometimes the scope offering the very best optical performance within a given budget may not be the best scope for the application, depending on other important factors such as mounting height & length restrictions, weight, and reticle options that have to be evaluated on a case by case basis. 

 

A high post count may very well mean one has gathered a lot of useful knowledge from others' experiences while here... or it could just mean one has simply done a lot more typing than other posters.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 21:12
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

A high post count may very well mean one has gathered a lot of useful knowledge from others' experiences while here... or it could just mean one has simply done a lot more typing than other posters.


 Or, RD, a few of them really do have their sh*t together. Before you know it, these guys with the most posts will have you buying Nikon, IOR and S&B. I am such a sucker...........
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 22:08
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RD,if you are refering to the comments I made to GM that was not because of his post count,check his post history and you will see what I mean.

Some of the people that have very little posts here are some of my most repected members,Mike McDonald,RMsniper,TPS_phil,Tbone1 for example.

I think there has been a misunderstanding on your part.



Edited by SVD666
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Originally posted by SVD666 SVD666 wrote:

RD,if you are refering to the comments I made to GM that was not because of his post count,check his post history and you will see what I mean.

Some of the people that have very little posts here are some of my most repected members,Mike McDonald,RMsniper,TPS_phil,Tbone1 for example.

I think there has been a misunderstanding on your part.



Maybe so.  Actually I was really referring to comments you made to me in another thread.  I took the time to explain why I felt it was a mistake to assume a particular brand was never a good choice and your response to me I felt was rather curt, elitist and condescending.  Perhaps I just took your comments out of context; I don't dispute that, but when I asked for clarification, you didn't follow up with a reply.  I don't dispute your contribution to OT.  I appreciate your input.  In fact, you seem like a very nice guy, which is why I was puzzled by some recent comments you made to me.


Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 22:38
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There has been alot of BS going around lately and maybee I caught a little of that described cabin fever too. I admited this to a few of the regulars here throgh a PM. I am a cool guy and I learned something very important earlier today when I got a PM from somebody here saying they are no longer going to

participate here. I have a new outlook and you will notice the change.



Edited by SVD666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 22:47
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Thanks, bud!  I know from reading your posts that you aren't one who typically belittles other people over trivial things.  When you don't have the benefit of facial expressions and voice inflection, it's often easy to misunderstand people's intent through the written word.  I don't want to be petty, so I'll try not to sweat the small stuff.  Again, I do enjoy reading your posts!

Have a great weekend!
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