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Fixed Power Scope Comparisons for 7mm08

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 14:25
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Hi...first post on this forum.

I've posted on thehigroad about my new rifle setup and was lurking on this one, but figured I'd just ask...

I want a fixed powered scope 3x or 4x for my new featherweight in 7mm08. I'd like the german #4 reticle. Leupold has an FXII in 4x33 for $270 and they will put the reticle in for $60.

On reading these forums, people generally say they like the Leupolds but could get a better scope for the money. So what scope?

Using the Leupold FXII as the standard...say 3 stars. How and why would you rate the scope that would be better? Would the scope that you would rate better be able to be repaired several years down the road?

Price is no object in your comparisons...I'm not on an unlimited budget, but would like to know what others who can afford schmidt and bender, us optics, as well as burris and bushnell etc. In other words...if they all cost the same...how would you rate them based upon your experience?

 

Thanks,

LW

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 15:10
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Well, I've never had a Leupold break..........BUT......for that kind of money I would beat my feet down to the store and get an IOR 4X!!!   check out their reticles here on SWFA's site.....
 
 
plus they have 4A and 7A..............Wink
 
....and they are way better than Leupold......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 15:24
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I'd also look at the Zeiss, although it may not be possible to get it retrofitted with the #4 reticle - http://swfa.com/Zeiss-4x32-Conquest-Rifle-Scope-P6595.aspx for $300. I have an FX-II (now mounted on my .22) and it is a decent scope...just fine in the light transmission dept. but I have always been annoyed by the tendency of Leupolds I have owned to require a little settling in after adjusting elevation or windage. Aside from the reticle, I'd go with the Zeiss because it's less than the IOR and probably has almost as good glass. (With a relatively low magnification and huge exit pupil (8mm) any decent 4x32 has no problem IMO providing a good view of the target). I'd guess (not having owned one) that the Zeiss will be more precise when adjusted and have great warranty coverage. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 15:24
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Leupold 6x42 FX-3 Riflescope Long Range Duplex Leupold 6x42 FX-3 Riflescope
Stock # - LEU66820
  • Matte
  • Long Range Duplex
  • 1"
  • Xtended Twilight Lens System
$409.95 
Add Leupold 6x42 FX-3 Riflescope to Cart
IOR 4x32 Hunting Rifle Scope 4A IOR 4x32 Hunting Rifle Scope
Stock # - 403240
  • Matte
  • 4A
  • 1"
$359.95 
Add IOR 4x32 Hunting Rifle Scope to Cart
The FX3 has significantly better glass than the FXII  and the IOR has significantly better glass also.  So if the FXII was three stars the other two would be five or six stars and the  Long Range Duplex balistic reticle merits an additional star for added usefulness at long range.  Dont underestimate your 7mm08 it will kill deer a long way off at least to 600 yds probably further using the right ammo.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 15:47
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I just bought a Sako Finnlight  7 08. I put a Zeiss Conquest 3.5x10x44 with rapid z 600 scope on it...I shot a little buck last night with it at around 150 yards...Myself I prefer the variables as I hunt in wide open areas. The nearest tree, which was a scraggly juniper was probably 1,000 yards away. I own a Leo VX-3 and Swaro , both Varibles but Zeiss which is a great scope makes a 4X. I prefer 40mm Objectives at a minimum, But you might like this. I think its a good buy for a quality scope
 
Zeiss 4x32 Conquest Rifle Scope Z-Plex Zeiss 4x32 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - 5214059920
  • Matte
  • Z-Plex
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$299.95 


Edited by JF4545 - October/04/2009 at 15:56
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 16:01
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The Zeiss Conquest is a bargain in the 4x .  Glad to hear you got your deer Julio.   Were you satisfied with the 7mm08 s performance?

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - October/04/2009 at 16:15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 16:14
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I love the  sako 708 and scope. Ive always shot 270 and 7mm Mag. Everything Ive ever shot just dropped.. This Buck I shot just behind the shoulder thru the lungs. Ive never seen this before Wes, I crossed a little gully so I could walk up the hill to see if I hit him. The next thing I know this buck comes staggering down the hill and falls through the fence right at my feet practically. I had to head shoot it...I do not understand this, I bought 140gr TSX by Federal, this is until I get the brass to load my own.. I cannot understand why in the hell that deer did not go down???? I will be loading my own from now on, you can bet on that..Other then that yes Im very happy with it, we shot a coyote yesterday with it too. Its a very handy rifle with the 20" barrel.....
  "I love the Zeiss Scope to by the way Leaky Waders"


Edited by JF4545 - October/04/2009 at 16:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 16:22
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I've hit deer with a 50 cal musket with a 295 gr hollowpoint Barnes copper bullet gotten full expansion and hit front chest without making exit transfering all the energy and still had the deer go 50 yds. Everything I ever shot with 30-06 dropped like a rock except one years ago that I didnt correct enough for distance he was at 600 and I broke his front knee and walked up and put a 22 mag pistol to his head.  Bow shot deer can go quite a way before they bleed out.  I think your rifle should be accurate enough to shoot them in the neck that will work really well at dropping them without making a mess.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 16:23
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Originally posted by JF4545 JF4545 wrote:

I just bought a Sako Finnlight  7 08. I put a Zeiss Conquest 3.5x10x44 with rapid z 600 scope on it...I shot a little buck last night with it at around 150 yards...Myself I prefer the variables as I hunt in wide open areas. The nearest tree, which was a scraggly juniper was probably 1,000 yards away. I own a Leo VX-3 and Swaro , both Varibles but Zeiss which is a great scope makes a 4X. I prefer 40mm Objectives at a minimum, But you might like this. I think its a good buy for a quality scope
 
Zeiss 4x32 Conquest Rifle Scope Z-Plex Zeiss 4x32 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - 5214059920
  • Matte
  • Z-Plex
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$299.95 


+2 on this scope. The Z-Plex reticle is outstanding on this scope and to my eyes appears a little different compared to the same reticle on the other Conquest scopes. It looks like the price may have dropped on this scope, I think I'm making a phone call tomorrow!! Big Smile


Edited by mike650 - October/04/2009 at 16:27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 16:24
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Originally posted by JF4545 JF4545 wrote:

I love the  sako 708 and scope. Ive always shot 270 and 7mm Mag. Everything Ive ever shot just dropped.. This Buck I shot just behind the shoulder thru the lungs. Ive never seen this before Wes, I crossed a little gully so I could walk up the hill to see if I hit him. The next thing I know this buck comes staggering down the hill and falls through the fence right at my feet practically. I had to head shoot it...I do not understand this, I bought 140gr TSX by Federal, this is until I get the brass to load my own.. I cannot understand why in the hell that deer did not go down???? I will be loading my own from now on, you can bet on that..Other then that yes Im very happy with it, we shot a coyote yesterday with it too. Its a very handy rifle with the 20" barrel.....
  "I love the Zeiss Scope to by the way Nebraska"



Don't feel bad Julio, it's not uncommon this to happen to a lung shot deer.

Are you going to load TSX or TTSX rounds?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 16:31
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Well, Ive shot quite a few Deer in my life and never experienced anything like this before. So it kinda blew me away... Yes Rifle is dead nuts accurate at 200, I have to say you guys were right the Sako's out the box are a damn accurate rifle.. So yes Wes, I and the rifle are capable of neck shots.. I ned alot of practice to get to be as good as a shot as my son is though...At least I have a goal, something to shoot for (no pun intended)

Mike, I buy TSX BT's  Ive only recently heard mention of the TTSX, are they NEW or is it Im just not paying attention? Thanks Mike! Ive never liked wounding anything because I know what pain feels like....I like a quick kill!
WHAT? are you gonna put the Zeiss 4X on?


Edited by JF4545 - October/04/2009 at 16:38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 16:49
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Originally posted by JF4545 JF4545 wrote:

Well, Ive shot quite a few Deer in my life and never experienced anything like this before. So it kinda blew me away... Yes Rifle is dead nuts accurate at 200, I have to say you guys were right the Sako's out the box are a damn accurate rifle.. So yes Wes, I and the rifle are capable of neck shots.. I ned alot of practice to get to be as good as a shot as my son is though...At least I have a goal, something to shoot for (no pun intended)

Mike, I buy TSX BT's  Ive only recently heard mention of the TTSX, are they NEW or is it Im just not paying attention? Thanks Mike! Ive never liked wounding anything because I know what pain feels like....I like a quick kill!


Totally understand, I don't think anyone does!!!  Big Grin

For the most part, yes.

From Barnes web site:

The Tipped TSX (TTSX™ ) bullet features a polymer tip extending into a specially engineered nose cavity in the all-copper TSX body. The combination of tip and cavity initiates rapid expansion the instant the bullet strikes game. The streamlined tip also increases the ballistic coefficient of the TTSX bullets for superior long-range performance. This bullet expands reliably over a broad range of velocities.

Some of these bullets will be available near the end of 2007, and will be offered in four different calibers beginning 2008.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 16:59
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Yes, I just went and looked I have both TSX and TTSX in the man cave..I do not have a TTSX for my 7mm- 08 (.284 Winchester) If Barnes makes them , then they are not in the Barnes #4 Manual.. I just have the TSSX in 110gr. for my 270WSM... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 17:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 17:46
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Nosler Partition is famous because it fragments a portion of the bullet and then keps the shank to drive deep.  With a Barnes you don't fragment so it's always going to drive deeper but that isn't necessary for a deer that is man-sized.  Think if you really need such a premium, expensive bullet for deer.  30 year old bullet designs that are not bonded or monolithic have enough "explosiveness" and still drive deep enough. 
 
A bullet that only retains 50-70% of its mass will have a better effect on deer - expensive and bonded bullets for elk, moose, bears, etc.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 17:58
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http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/WoundProfilesAfterWallBarrier.jpg
 
The Barnes TSX and TTSX is acting like those 9mm and 45  JHP's at the top except with a large temporary cavity about like the 5.56 underneath them but little more stretched out.
 
For deer its better to have a bullet that acts like the .308 155gr. Hornady A-Max at the bottom.  Lights out effect but still plenty of penetration.  You will still have an exit wound it just won't go through the two trees behind the deer like a Barnes would.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 18:10
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Part of the reason I like the Barnes is you know you wont be eating any led fragments in the meat.  Years ago I can remember picking shotgun pellets out of doves and quail so I'm sure I've probably eaten some over the years but lead exposure is something to be concerned about especially for us guys who reload and cast bullets and sinkers etc.  There is some push toward "green" ammo. Can you imagine the cost if the EPA told you that you had to recover every lead bullet you ever shot to clean up the enviroment.  I think sticking with one premium bullet that will kill both deer and elk is the ticket and if the bullet is all copper you know you are not ingesting lead.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 18:27
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Here in Cali a good portion of state is forced to use a bullet like the Barnes. I'm fortunate to be in the part that's not so I'm currently still using Swift A-frame. When the rest of the state follows suit I'll be switch to something like the TTSX and have already started the investigative process.

My bother already switched over and has been reloading TTSX for his 300RUM for the past year or so with very good success.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 18:29
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I understand about some bullets being able to expand (or even explode) more on impact than others.  Im no expert but Ive found the Barnes TSX Boat Tails to be extremely accurate..I do not think I will ever be able to out shoot most of my rifles , but I do try.
 
Wow Guys!  You mean Im being politically correct (Go Green) becuase Im shooting the TSX Bullets??   ShockedThats pretty funny, NOW I want to switch back to Lead...Big Grin I love trees but that does not make me a Tree Hugger.....


Edited by JF4545 - October/04/2009 at 18:36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 18:39
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A friend and I used to use the TSX, he in the 7-08 and me in the 270.  We both had failure to find game.  Mine was just a pig and I followed the blood trail which was only an occasional spot on the grass stems at pig shoulder height but when he broke into clear ground the trail disappeared.  In our opinion and I have seen other threads about this, the smaller caliber TSX's could pencil through without opening sufficiently.  Notice the size of the hollow points in the smaller calibers and some detritus in them
 
338, 308, 7mm, 270, 6.5
 
Now the TTSX is different in that the hollow point behind the tip is larger, this on a 338 caliber
 
At least, if you are going to shoot with a smaller caliber TSX at closer ranges, AIM FOR BONE!  I am not a believer in neck shooting but a big proponent of shooting them through the front shoulders.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 18:41
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 The bullet probably didn't fail.

It just failed to disintegtrate, which often kills deer and other light game faster than a bullet which only expands, especially on broadside heart/lung hits.

 Just the nature of the bullet/game relationship. No surprise here.
 
Edited to add the word "probably" after reading Sakomato's in-depth post, which reminded me of incidents of failure to open in the small calber Barnes X-types due to the tiny opening at the meplat.
 


Edited by RONK - October/04/2009 at 18:45
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Back to the 4x scopes.  I recently purchased the Leupold FX2 4x for my 45-70.  I personally chose that scope because it had 4in eye relief, well know for very strong, and it has a very small eye piece which is something I needed.

I have been hunting elk with it the last few days and personally I think it is a dandy scope.  The glass is plenty good for early morning/late evening shooting.  This morning I could see elk in it just fine about 15 min before it got light.  Which for me is plenty good.

The one problem I have seen so far which cost me a shot today was near direct sunlight.  I called in a bull across the little draw I was standing on.  He was standing broad side looking towards my calling.  The sun was just above him as he was just east of me and the sun had just come over the hill he was on.  With my Meopta binos I could make him out just fine and was able to tell he was a spike bull. (which is all we can hunt by the way) Granted it was brighted out a bit as the sun was just out of the image, but when  put up my Leupold it was just a white wash and I was not able to see him to take the shot. 

That is where better glass will come in and make a difference.  I would take a look at the IOR, it will have slightly better glass than the Zeiss and may benefit you a bit more in a situation like that.  I still really like that Leupold, but it is a bummer that I have to deal with that.
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Originally posted by sakomato sakomato wrote:

At least, if you are going to shoot with a smaller caliber TSX at closer ranges, AIM FOR BONE!  I am not a believer in neck shooting but a big proponent of shooting them through the front shoulders.


That is a good point, you take out that shoulder bone and they have a hard time going anywhere.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 19:32
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Back to the 4x scopes.  I recently purchased the Leupold FX2 4x for my 45-70.  I personally chose that scope because it had 4in eye relief, well know for very strong, and it has a very small eye piece which is something I needed.

I have been hunting elk with it the last few days and personally I think it is a dandy scope.  The glass is plenty good for early morning/late evening shooting.  This morning I could see elk in it just fine about 15 min before it got light.  Which for me is plenty good.

The one problem I have seen so far which cost me a shot today was near direct sunlight.  I called in a bull across the little draw I was standing on.  He was standing broad side looking towards my calling.  The sun was just above him as he was just east of me and the sun had just come over the hill he was on.  With my Meopta binos I could make him out just fine and was able to tell he was a spike bull. (which is all we can hunt by the way) Granted it was brighted out a bit as the sun was just out of the image, but when  put up my Leupold it was just a white wash and I was not able to see him to take the shot. 

That is where better glass will come in and make a difference.  I would take a look at the IOR, it will have slightly better glass than the Zeiss and may benefit you a bit more in a situation like that.  I still really like that Leupold, but it is a bummer that I have to deal with that.
  I've had that happen to me, but I think a simple sunshade would have made all the difference in my situation.
 Do your Meoptas have any kind of setback to the objective lens which would act as a sunshade, or is it your conclusion that the difference is due entirely to glass quality?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 20:00
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Mr. Brooks for Barnes has gotten a lot of feedback about how the bullets open up, that is why you see their videos trying to highlight how fast they open.  Still you hear about a lot of expansion failures with them even though they are altered more than any other bullet design, constantly.  He started the TTSX bullets for people who knew the regular ones didn't always act as planned so they would give Barnes bullets a try again.  He will tell you all about it on e-mail.
 
They was also getting bugged about exaggerated B.C.'s and they are trying to do much better with that and have a little brag about it on the website.
 
I know if I would use one it would be some thing .338 or larger.  They are big-game and barrier rounds.  I think with the California condor b.s. they probably had a huge celebration dinner.  If you read up on it it takes A LOT of lead for negative effects on people and animals...and the brass for ammunition cases is also bad for you regardless of which bullet type or design you use.
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