New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - First post, Looking for AR optic
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

First post, Looking for AR optic

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2007 at 23:27
mr10anahaf View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: September/04/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8

I have been looking for a scope for way too long, my brain is just about fired at this point. So many variables, I just need some help now. I've tried this before on another forum and got pretty good info, however things have changed with my setup so I thought I'd come here. I've searched around and found some posts that were similar to my questions, while helpful, I'd like to try for some more personal answers and it seems that the reply posters are always asking the OP for more information. So Im going to try and include as much as I can to make it easier for you all to give me your recommendations.  

 

Rifle- Rock River Arms Coyote, 20" Free float BBl no BUIS

Ammo- Whatever works best. I'll try to stay with federal,Winchester ect, very unlikely I'll be using any hand loads

Scope Mount - Larue SPR

 

Use- Groundhog and Coyote hunting in NE Ohio. Hunting will be at all hours, day, dusk and plenty of night shooting.

Terrain- Pastures and Fields

Foreseeable distances- 100-300 yards. ( not much uninterrupted field past 300yds in my area)

Power- Would like a variable power scope, at least 10x. While I may be doing all my shooting at the same power the other setting would be nice to have for "taking a look see"

Size- I don't want a monster. I looked at a Millett TRS1, it was WAY too big at 16.4". I'd like to keep it under that.

 

Me- Average shooter, first experience with magnified optics other than with rimfire. While kinda personal, I'll admit I have dyslexia (transversal) which makes it almost impossible to work out equations in my head. I have to write everything down and rely heavily on calculator's really don't want to spend days at the range writing out formulas just to go kill a few hogs. I've looked into using mil-dots and to be honest I just don't get it. I even practiced on an online simulator and Im still at a loss. This makes me think that mil-dots are out, is there an easier system that will work with 223/556?

 

Price- $500.00-$600.00. I should mention that if I purchase a Burris Scope I pay %55 of the MSRP, basically about $150.00 under the retail price.

 

Misc questions-

Whats more important target/tac knobs or illumination?

I was told that anything under a 50mm and I will not be able to use it after dark, is this true?

 

If you have made it all the way down to here, thanks, I know it's a long post but I want this set up to be done to the best of my ability, I work hard for my $ and don't want to have to buy twice because I rushed into a purchase without asking around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Edited by mr10anahaf
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2007 at 02:05
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10981
First to address a couple of questions you asked at the end of your post (because I will forget about them later):

Misc questions-

Whats more important target/tac knobs or illumination?


        That is very personal.  In your case, ilumination is likely to be more important.



I was told that anything under a 50mm and I will not be able to use it after dark, is this true?


        This is not true.  Essentially, a larger objective lens allows you to use slightly higher magnification in low light.  For example, with a 50mm objective lens, and ideal magnification to use in very low light is likely to be around 7x or 8x,  while with a  42mm objective lens you would probably need to dial down to about 6x - 6.5x.  Personally, I would prefer a smaller lighter scope that can be mounted lower, and use 6x in low light.  It is, once again is very personal, and since not all scopes are available in all configurations, other parameters might govern your scope choice.  I would not get too stuck on the objective lens diameter.


Now, onto your original question.

For shooting out to 300 yards and closer, I do not think you need to worry about Mil-Dots and such.  I am not sure what loads you plan to use, but I think common predator/varmint 223 loads have 55 grain bullets which only drop about 7"-8" at 300 yards if zeroed at 200 yards.  However, if you zero it at around 250 yards, you should be able to hold pretty much dead on out to 300 yards, with the highest point in the trajectory of the bullet coming at ~150 yards and being +3" or so.  At 300 yards the bullet will be right at -3" or thereabouts.  Unless you plan to shoot further than that, complicated reticles and target knobs are mostly a distraction.

If you plan to be shooting at night, a well executed illuminated reticle is a pretty good way to go.  That means that you want the illumination to be not too bright, and confined to only the center of the reticle.  A center illuminated dot for example. 

It may be worth your time to take a look at Trijicon Accupont 3-9x40 and 2.5-10x56 scopes.  Their reticle is very fast to acquire and does not require any knobs to turn on the illumination due to the use of tritium.

In the Burris line-up, you may want to take a look at  LRS Signature Select 3-10x40.  However, it's reticle is a bit more complicated than you need, so that would not be my first choice.  A better Burris option is LRS Euro Diamond 2.5-10x50 with #4 reticle and illuminated dot.  Burris has also a 4-16x44 Signature Select illuminated scope, but it is big and heavy.

Bushnell has an Elite 4200 2.5-10x50 scope with #4 reticle and illuminated dot which would a pretty good way to go.  Personally, I would take this scope over the Burris, but with your discount, you have to make the choice.

There are of course quite a few other scopes that firt your reuirements, but they are typically well out of you price range.  Within your price range, I think the options above are your best bet, if you want to stay on budget.

ILya


Edited by koshkin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2007 at 03:02
mr10anahaf View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: September/04/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8

 koshkin- Thank you for all the info. Your the first person to explain the under 300 yard bullet drop to me, what you said makes a lot of sense. It's too early in the morning for me ( almost the end of my shift) to process everything in your reply. I'll take another look at it when I get some sleep and my brain wakes up.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2007 at 10:44
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7551&PN=1

 

Leo .1.5x 5  with special purpose reticle and m2 knobs calibrated for 223

put the 2 on click for 200 yds

put the 3 on click for 300 yd

put the 4 on click for 400 yds

put the 5 on click for 500 yds.

or if that gets boring each reticle tick is 2.5 moa which is about 200 yrds.  for each 2.5 moa but take your calculator.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2007 at 19:09
mr10anahaf View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: September/04/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7551&PN=1

 

Leo .1.5x 5  with special purpose reticle and m2 knobs calibrated for 223

put the 2 on click for 200 yds

put the 3 on click for 300 yd

put the 4 on click for 400 yds

put the 5 on click for 500 yds.

or if that gets boring each reticle tick is 2.5 moa which is about 200 yrds.  for each 2.5 moa but take your calculator.

 

Now correct me if Im wrong but since this scope had a 32mm objective,  that would limit me to using only 1x or 2x at night, right?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2007 at 19:43
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10981
That would depend on how dark it is going to get and how young your eyes are.  Oh, and the scope Dale is referring to has 20mm objective lens.

It is a nice scope in its own right, but I do not think it is ideal for your application.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2007 at 21:26
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
Only in the budget department (and 10x preference), at a loss here to see why a shot in low light on say 3 power is any different than a shot in daylight at 3 power, even at 5x the 20 has 4mm, with no problems on exact centering.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/06/2007 at 00:38
mr10anahaf View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: September/04/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8

Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

Only in the budget department (and 10x preference),  I can spend what I can spend, not much more I can say about that. Also I'd like to have the high power to get a close of view of things at times.

 

at a loss here to see why a shot in low light on say 3 power is any different than a shot in daylight at 3 power, even at 5x the 20 has 4mm, with no problems on exact centering.

 

From what I've been reading 7mm is the min that I'd need to see anything after dark, right?.

 

Hey Im trying, this is all new to me and all I have is the net and forms to figure things out. Trust me I'd much rather have someone to go to the range with who can show me, and I can learn from but Im not that lucky.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/06/2007 at 00:50
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10981
7mm is not the minumum you need.  7mm is pretty much the maximum your eye can use, and even that only if you are fairly young and healthy.

For most people though, it is probably a good idea to make sure that you get somewhere between 5 and 7mm of exit pupil.  Leupy 1.5-5x20 is a nice little scope, but I do not think it is optimal if you are looking night time performance out to 300 yards.  It would be a more applicable choice if you were looking for something as compact as possible, though.  I think for your needs somethng along the lines of 2.5-10x40 or 2.5-10x50 is optimal.  This is not going onto an M4 carbine anyway.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2007 at 17:45
RONK View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: April/05/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3199
Originally posted by mr10anahaf mr10anahaf wrote:

I have been looking for a scope for way too long, my brain is just about fired at this point. So many variables, I just need some help now. I've tried this before on another forum and got pretty good info, however things have changed with my setup so I thought I'd come here. I've searched around and found some posts that were similar to my questions, while helpful, I'd like to try for some more personal answers and it seems that the reply posters are always asking the OP for more information. So Im going to try and include as much as I can to make it easier for you all to give me your recommendations.  

 

Rifle- Rock River Arms Coyote, 20" Free float BBl no BUIS

Ammo- Whatever works best. I'll try to stay with federal,Winchester ect, very unlikely I'll be using any hand loads

Scope Mount - Larue SPR

 

Use- Groundhog and Coyote hunting in NE Ohio. Hunting will be at all hours, day, dusk and plenty of night shooting.

Terrain- Pastures and Fields

Foreseeable distances- 100-300 yards. ( not much uninterrupted field past 300yds in my area)

Power- Would like a variable power scope, at least 10x. While I may be doing all my shooting at the same power the other setting would be nice to have for "taking a look see"

Size- I don't want a monster. I looked at a Millett TRS1, it was WAY too big at 16.4". I'd like to keep it under that.

 

Me- Average shooter, first experience with magnified optics other than with rimfire. While kinda personal, I'll admit I have dyslexia (transversal) which makes it almost impossible to work out equations in my head. I have to write everything down and rely heavily on calculator's really don't want to spend days at the range writing out formulas just to go kill a few hogs. I've looked into using mil-dots and to be honest I just don't get it. I even practiced on an online simulator and Im still at a loss. This makes me think that mil-dots are out, is there an easier system that will work with 223/556?

 

Price- $500.00-$600.00. I should mention that if I purchase a Burris Scope I pay %55 of the MSRP, basically about $150.00 under the retail price.

 

Misc questions-

Whats more important target/tac knobs or illumination?

I was told that anything under a 50mm and I will not be able to use it after dark, is this true?

 

If you have made it all the way down to here, thanks, I know it's a long post but I want this set up to be done to the best of my ability, I work hard for my $ and don't want to have to buy twice because I rushed into a purchase without asking around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Neither. Glass quality/good resolution trumps both, especially in your application. 

 

  If I were you, I would reluctantly resign myself to living with a fairly large scope. You won't be able to purchase the other features you really should have, in a compact unit.

  Also, your 45% discount on Burris simply seals the deal on a Burris product; one of the  Euro-Diamonds in a middle-of-the-road power range variable, perhaps? Not sure if your SPR mount is 1 inch or 30mm, though.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2007 at 13:27
mr10anahaf View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: September/04/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 

  If I were you, I would reluctantly resign myself to living with a fairly large scope. You won't be able to purchase the other features you really should have, in a compact unit.

  Also, your 45% discount on Burris simply seals the deal on a Burris product; one of the  Euro-Diamonds in a middle-of-the-road power range variable, perhaps? Not sure if your SPR mount is 1 inch or 30mm, though.

 

 



Alas I think your right, common sense would dictate I go with the Burris XTR, while big it fits all my categories. I suppose I can just sight it in at 10x @ 250yards until I find an easy way to use a range finding rad. Now the question is plex or mildot?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2007 at 17:39
VNVGUNNER View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: October/29/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6

Nikon 6.5-20 x 44 mil dot

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2007 at 17:55
Pooreyes-2 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: September/02/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 79

 

 Nice stick there Gunner. You should at it to the other pics that are uner the firearm

board. Once again nice.

 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "First post, Looking for AR optic"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Need Optic for my first AR 5.56 bird_hunter66 Tactical Scopes 16
My first post! Seeking some optic guidance Blackbird97 Tactical Scopes 10
First post and a few questions kaloman Tactical Scopes 19
Looking for advice for first time buy Swanderson Binoculars 2
My first post ever ... and some questions JAG980 Rifle Scopes 37
First post, need scope suggestion jevyod Rifle Scopes 22
What optic for an Optic Ready AR? teddy12b Tactical Scopes 31
First look at 137gr GS Custom 8shots The Range Report 4
Looking to buy first rifle scope Wharkins2005 Rifle Scopes 4
Optic for AR-10 Jferguso Tactical Scopes 9


This page was generated in 0.406 seconds.