New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - First AR optic advice. Acog, scope, red dot???
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

First AR optic advice. Acog, scope, red dot???

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 10:45
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
So I finally bought myself an AR after years of wanting one. Went with a quality gun. BCM 16" 410ss upper with a 13" KMR hanguard sitting on a BCM lower. The real life use of this thing will be plinking and coyote hunting a couple times a year. I have no delusions that my life will ever depend on this rifle.

So my initial thoughts were to slap a 4-12 VXR with CDS on this thing so I'd have a long range coyote sniper. After handling the gun for a bit I'm questioning that thought thinking a large scope like that may throw the balance off on the rifle.

I'm intrigued by the idea of an ACOG with a bdc type reticle for the speed and simplicity. I really like some of the ACOG reticles. Kinda turned off by the low magnification and really short eye relief. Never used one so I don't know if I'll like it or not.

Ideally what I think I'd really like to have is a nice fixed 6 to 10 ish power scope with a nice but simple bdc combat type reticle and a decent size objective lense for gatheting light in hunting situations and then mount a nice red dot on top of it for close or fast shooting. I'm not really sewing any options in the under 900 ish price range. Haven't looked seriously above that.

The other option would be a run of the mill 1-6 type tactical scope with a first focal reticle so my hold overs are always correct but I am hesitant about the 20mm to 24mm objective lenses for hunting in low light situations. I also don't really like some of the really complex reticles on the higher magnification "sniper" scopes.


That was a lot of rambling. Sorry. Any advice or recomendations are appreciated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 10:58
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Online
Points: 9531
Nice choice on your rifle. I have a bcm light weight upper with hammer forged barrel and i like it a lot.

Maybe consider a leupold vx-r patrol 3-9x. Lightweight for what it is. Exposed adjustable turrets, good glass, 2nd focal mil based reticle and an excellent illumination systm. I have one and i like it a lot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 11:09
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
If i went vxr I'd just get a standard type firedot and then get a cds. I don't want a busy reticle AND exposed turrets. The tall exposed turrets also seem to limit the ability to mount a red dot on top.

I'd also like to point out that wit the 410ss barrel my gun is already more front heavy then yours. I question if having a large scope hanging way far forward will throw the balance of the rifle way out of wack for offhand shooting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 12:01
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Online
Points: 9531
That would work too. But the turrets are the same height as the cds but you'll have more freedom with patrol. But i get your concerns

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 12:58
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
What I'd really like is more opinions/advice on the ACOG style sights. I'm checking out the sig bravo line which looks pretty sweet too. Love that reticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 12:59
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10977
If you are looking at ACOG or something along those lines, perhaps these couple of articles will help:



That all having been said, for general plinking and occasional coyote hunting in low light a larger objective and a touch more magnification may not be a bad idea.

I would take a close look at Meopta Meostar 1.5-6x42:

For your stated us case, that Meopta would likely be at the top of my list.

That having been said, my lightweight AR carbine wear Elcan Spectre OS and I am still extremely impressed with it:


ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 13:10
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
Thanks I'll check out those articles. As far as the Meopta.. I already have a burris euro diamond in 1.5-6 that sits on a browning bar that I'd just take off and put on the AR if that was the configuration I decided to go. Then I'd throw a vxr 3-9 on my BAR. That would be the most economical route for me to go but I kinda want something cool in the AR. The gun was partly purchased for its cool factor. I certainly didn't "need" it although I told the wife it was required for coyote hunting. Lol.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 13:12
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
I really wish they made an ACOG with 6 power that was compact and had good eye relief. Probably not easy to do or I assume they would've already produced it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 13:42
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10977
If you want something cool looking, then try this:


It will cost you, though.

IOR makes a 1x / 6x version of their Pitbull, but I have not tested it yet:

Another intersting looking option is Leupold's D-EVO:
http://swfa.com/Leupold-6x20-D-EVO-P82905.aspx although that might not be the best low light option.

Lastly,  while not as cool looking, Zeiss Victory V8 1-8x30 has the largest objective of the conventionally styled low-range variable scopes.

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 13:48
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
Does anyone make a fixed 6x + option that has a reticle similar to sig's 5.56 horseshoe reticle? The bravo 5 looks like the closest thing to what I want and then add a red dot on top. I just can't find much info on it. Have you tested any of the bravo line? Wondering if it's a hunk of junk or what.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 13:58
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10977
Bravo 5 is OK, most likely, but I am not sure it is shipping yet.  I plan to review Bravo4, but I have not yet decided on Bravo5.

I suspect, it is a similar design to the Burris AR-536:

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 14:03
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
How about a compact fixed 6 to 10 power scope with a 223 holdover reticle? I really wish I did have to pay an arm and a leg for a variable power 1-6 or 1-8 scope when I'll never use the variable power on the low end because I'll just add a red dot on top.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 14:15
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10977
Well, as a general consideration, I would go with a mrad-based reticle, rather than some sort of a dedicated 5.56 reticle.  It is a more flexible option, but that is a personal choice.

Compact high magnification scopes are harder to make well, so they do not really exist.  There are a few very cheap ones and there is a reason they are crap.

IF you want a failry compact (although not very light) 10x scope, US Optics 10x37 is one of the rather few options:

IOR used to make a 6x30 Super M2 scope, but I think I am the only one who liked it and I have not seen it offered for a few years now.

Aside from that the Elcan and IOR options I mentioned earlier are the only compact options you have, that I am aware of.

ILya




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 15:57
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
One last question. Have you reviewed the TA11 acog? Supposedly a much better eye relief and better eyebox.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 16:00
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10977
Originally posted by BigGameBalls BigGameBalls wrote:

One last question. Have you reviewed the TA11 acog? Supposedly a much better eye relief and better eyebox.

I've played with it.  Better? Yes.  Much better? No.

If you want a prism sight, ACOG would not be my recommendation at this stage.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 16:13
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20478
My Bravo Middy wears an Aimpoint Micro. Love it. 

I would HIGHLY suggest spending some time with an ACOG before purchasing one. I know some love them, but I do not. 
I haven't tried of the newer models admittedly though.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 16:24
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
I'll probably just buy the vxr and stick to the original plan. All the good tactical stuff seems either way over priced for what I'm going to do with it or not what I want. I'll just get a quick detach scope mount and have 2 separate optics. I'm not dropping 2k on a scope that will go on a gun that I'll probably shoot a couple times a year. Only reason I was asking about acog was I found a we site that had a sale where I could pick one up for about 850 out the door.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 16:52
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20478
I don't mean to dissuade you from an ACOG, Sir. YOU...may love it. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 17:12
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Online
Points: 9531
I have two acogs and have had several more. They are good optics, but not the best option for a plinking/yote hunting gun imo. The bdc is bery specific for a load and height above bore. So for shooting smaller game at longer distances it could cause misses quite often as it will not be perfect. On bigger targets like a dude i am sure they would work much better. But u could still figure out the bdc to work decent for your needs. It will just never be as good as dialing in your dope.

The 3x and 3.5x actually have great eye relief. The 4x is quite lacking in that regard and requires nose to charging handle shooting. But it also offers the best fov of the 3. They are all good optics, they just excel in different areas.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 19:12
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
I guess my concern with the acog type scope is when I'm hunting yotes I'll probably be lying down with a bipod or sitting prone stock extended. Nose to charging handle shooting seems like it would be awkward in those positions. I think I'll need a more traditional scope. In reality I'll probably hardly ever use a bdc reticle either. Most my shots in the real world are going to be under 100 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 19:25
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Online
Points: 9531
The 3x acog has extremely easy eye relief. You can move up close or be back a good 5 inches and still see through it fine. Its my favorite because of that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2016 at 19:41
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
How does the Sig Tango4 line stack up against the VXR line. Looking at the 3-12x42 vs the VXR 4-12x40. Like the sig reticle better and the bigger mag range but like the lighter weight and shorter overall length of the leupold. Hate the fact the sig scope is "graphite" color and not black.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2016 at 12:31
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2016 at 08:52
BigGameBalls View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/10/2010
Location: MN
Status: Offline
Points: 218
Well after all that I ended up just going with the VXR 3-9 patrol. I will just put it on a qd mount so I can shoot my backup irons if I'm just plinking at short range
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2016 at 09:23
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20478
Good scope. 
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "First AR optic advice. Acog, scope, red dot???"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Red dot scope advice Skipdevil Rifle Scopes 12 12/10/2006 9:16:44 AM
Looking for red dot type scope advice JagerDog Rifle Scopes 9
Advice for red dot scope? JagerDog Tactical Scopes 6
Budget red dot scope ar-15 skeetlee Rifle Scopes 2
AR/Red Dot range trip report GaryO Tactical Scopes 2
doctor optics reflex red dot IHFarmer07 Rings and bases 4
First post, Looking for AR optic mr10anahaf Varmint Scopes 12 11/18/2007 5:55:40 PM
Docter Optic Red Dot Sight Mounting meangoat Rifle Scopes 1 11/7/2006 11:49:30 PM
Looking for Red Dot for my AR RJ_Whitlock Tactical Scopes 12
Need Optic for my first AR 5.56 bird_hunter66 Tactical Scopes 16


This page was generated in 0.438 seconds.