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Final Question Before My order

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 11:14
Themsah View Drop Down
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Ok friends I have gotten great advice from all of you here on my optics choice. Repeating again that I am extremely new to the world of long range shooting I have a final question on my optic choice. I have decided to order the SWFA SS from our gracious hosts. My question is Mil turrets or MOA?
 
In my research I have heard that a Mildot/Mil turret scope is much more user friendly than a Mil/MOA. Now in my practice I kind of find myself doing way more math and calculations when converting inches to mils (like when accounting for wind drift for example). It seems to me that the mil/mil setup only has an advantage when shooting requires a holdover of somesort instead of a fully dialed in firing solution.
 
I am curious to know your recommendations and comments..
 
PS. I also noticed most angled scope mount rails are in MOA which just adds more complication to calculating a firing solution with MIL Turrets.. Right?
 
Thanks in advance
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 11:34
supertool73 View Drop Down
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The slanted base will make zero difference to your shooting.  All it does is raise the back of your scope up so you are able to use more of the internal adjustment range of your scope for longer shooting.  So don't worry that it is in MOA.  A 20 MOA base would be about a 5.8 mil base. 

Mils and MOAs are both units of angular measurement.  Forget about using inches or centimeters of any use of linear measurements. 

1/4 MOA is a slightly finer unit of adjustment vs 1/10 mil adjustment.  1/10 mil is about 1/3 moa.  IMO for most typical shooters the 1/10 mil is a fine enough adjustment.  If you are shooting comps or benchrest then MOA might be a better choice in 1/4 MOA or 1/8 MOA.  

As far as which one is better for wind.  It will make little practical difference which one is used.  THe corrections will work the same.  You figure out how much the wind is and turn your knob the proper given amount to compensate for it.  The actual correction will be the same amount of measurement, just the number on the side of the knob will be different. 

There are several nice things about having the reticle match the adjustments.  Take wind calls for example.  If you want to hold or dial for wind the number will be the same.  Say had a wind call that needed a half mil adjustment.  You could either dial in half a mil, or just hold that half mil off with your reticle.  If you had moa adjustments then you would have to have two different numbers to figure out. 

Same if you have a miss.  With the mil/mil.  You watch with your reticle and you can tell exactly how far off your shot was.  Say you hit right 1.5 mils.  You can tell this based off where your bullet hit vs where you aimed.  You use your mil reticle as a ruler.  So from where you hit it was say 1.5 mils to the right of where you aimed.  So to make your correction you just dial is 1.5 mils and your next shot will be right on or you can hold that same 1.5 mils with your reticle.  That will work the same with elevation as well.  YOu can do this with a mil/moa but you have to change your mils into moas for the correction. 

Overall it is much easier to have a scope that matches in that regard. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 14:52
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
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This post explains a little what Jason in talking about.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 15:03
Themsah View Drop Down
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Thanks soo much guys definately clears things up.  Now I just need uncle sam to hurry up with the money he owes me so I can place that order..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 15:13
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
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The problem you are going to run into is saying my .308 is going to need a X amount of inches wind correction at Y amount of yards with a 15 mph wind. Just calculate your wind in MILs from the get go and forget inches. Then you will understand the simplicity of it and love your MIL/MIL setup. I have dope cheat sheets on my target rifles and it doesn't say anything about inches for holdover or wind. Doing the conversions up front the first time may be difficult since you aren't used to it but it is worth it.
Say you need 3" of correction for wind at 200 yards.
Well 1 mil at 200 yards is 7.2 inches.
So how many mils is 3 inches at 200 yards?
3" divided by 7.2 is roughly .4 mils.

Edited by Chris Farris II - March/05/2013 at 15:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 15:50
supertool73 View Drop Down
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even easier than that, just use a ballistic program and put in different wind variables and you can just get data that is super close right from the program.   Then you can forget inches completely.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 16:01
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Everyone should be able to do it manually before they start cheating, IMHO. The ballistic programs that are out now a days are very nice and user friendly though if you get the right one. I have used a few of them. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 17:07
Sparky View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

Everyone should be able to do it manually before they start cheating, IMHO. The ballistic programs that are out now a days are very nice and user friendly though if you get the right one. I have used a few of them. 


It is always a good idea to know the what and why you do something. Than to just put numbers in a formula / program and get a result.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 17:44
supertool73 View Drop Down
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I think you guys misunderstood my post.  The physics part is not going to change.  X amount of wind will always blow your bullet x amount all else being equal.  Why waste all that time and ammo figuring something out that has already been done by thousands of people.  It is no different than figuring out your elevation adjustments.  Why waste 50 rounds figuring out how much elevation you need to make a hit a 500 yards when you can look at a drop chart for a place to start and it gets you close.  A calculator is just a starting point whether it is for elevation or wind.  It cannot account for all the variables you have to account for.  The wind may be blowing 5 or 6 different directions between you and the target.  I would much rather spend my time learning to deal with that than trying to figure out exactly how many inches a 4 mph wind from 7 oclock will move my bullet.  Then next a 5 mph wind from 3 oclock etc etc, let the calc figure that stuff out.  It makes no sense to waste all the ammo trying to figure the basics out.  Thats not cheating its called working smarter not harder.   


    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2013 at 08:52
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
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I agree 100 percent with Supertool and did misunderstand the first post. On the smae page now! What was I doing second guessing you to being with. Smile
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