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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2011 at 00:49
Sefrez View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Yeah, I couldn't come up with a better title. I ended up buying some Talons the other day and got them today. Here is my new problem:


Look at my fingers for reference as to how much play there is. Otherwise, these bino's are awesome. This just makes for annoying focusing. I have heard how the ED2/ED3 Zen Rays have had this problem before, but this bad? Thoughts?

Thanks. Smile


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2011 at 08:17
Bitterroot Bulls View Drop Down
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My ED1 had some play, but not as much as your video.  My ED2 has zero play, zero.  Perhaps Klamath will fill you in on the ED3.

I would e-mail Vortex, and ask them what to do.  Perhaps they can hand-pick a good replacement for you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2011 at 12:42
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My 10x43 ed2's seem to have about the same non-focusing movement as your's. My swaro's and vortex have none
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2011 at 14:26
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My first set of Zen Ray 8 X 43 ED2s (I understand the Vortex Talon is a clone made in the same China factory) had a similar problem. Sent them back. Z-R replaced them. The replacement set is much better, though the focus wheel is still not quite as sensitive as I prefer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2011 at 16:13
Sefrez View Drop Down
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Thank you for the replies people. I am probably going to have to get up with Vortex on Monday. It seems here that the problem is not truly a design flaw but rather a fixable problem considering some of you have had problems and others not.

I am wondering if the focus knob is press fit or glued? It would be nice if there was some easily reversible mechanism (like being threaded on) so that I could remove the focus knob without much problem. Then I could take a look at it myself.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2011 at 16:53
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That does seem like a little too much play in the wheel.  I have no problem with a little, but that much might be extreme.  Like the others, I'd send it to Vortex.  I doubt that much play is within spec, and there may be adjustments to the focus mechanism that can easily be  done by a technician.  The play in my experience with the ZEN ED lines shows about 2-3* of play in the wheel, something I don't notice.
 
Focus is one of the things that probably drives optics engineers crazy.  This is an area where you really can't please everybody.  Some adamantly claim ANY play in the wheel is a fault.  Some like clockwise to infinity focus, some counterclockwise.  Some like fast rates of focus, some like slower rates.  At some point the engineer draws a line and hopes for the best.  Until recently, I thought my Razor HD had the best focus I'd tried.  Until the focus knob came off in my hand the other day.


Edited by Klamath - July/30/2011 at 16:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2011 at 17:00
koshkin View Drop Down
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Call Vortex.

I am sure they will resolve this to your satisfaction.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2011 at 18:46
Sefrez View Drop Down
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[QUOTE=Klamath]That does seem like a little too much play in the wheel.  I have no problem with a little, but that much might be extreme.  Like the others, I'd send it to Vortex.  I doubt that much play is within spec, and there may be adjustments to the focus mechanism that can easily be  done by a technician.  The play in my experience with the ZEN ED lines shows about 2-3* of play in the wheel, something I don't notice.
 
Focus is one of the things that probably drives optics engineers crazy.  This is an area where you really can't please everybody.  Some adamantly claim ANY play in the wheel is a fault.  Some like clockwise to infinity focus, some counterclockwise.  Some like fast rates of focus, some like slower rates.  At some point the engineer draws a line and hopes for the best.  Until recently, I thought my Razor HD had the best focus I'd tried.  Until the focus knob came off in my hand the other day.
[/QUOTE

Wow, how could that happen? Did you see how it was attached? I assume something broke and you are unable to fix it yourself.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2011 at 20:55
Sefrez View Drop Down
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An Update:

I called Vortex and a guy answered. He picked up the same model after I told him that I had the Talon, to compare it with my problem. He said that the focus had a little play in it but not as what was being described of my pair. I would rather there be zero play though. But I am not 100% sure of his definition of "a little play." Should I just go ahead and send it in hoping for the best? I am hoping that they look at the binocular they ship back out if replacing or otherwise I could get one back with similar problems - having me gotten nowhere.

I have noticed another weird thing with these bino's that I don't remember experiencing with the Monarchs. I noticed it when looking at a tower about 1/2 mile away and now can't stop noticing since figuring it out. It is pincushion distortion. Things past the center of field bend toward the side of the field it is nearest too - worse the further it gets to edge. Maybe this is a new observation simply because I went from a 5.5 (Monarch) to 6.6 FOV?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2011 at 23:27
Bitterroot Bulls View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sefrez Sefrez wrote:

An Update:

I called Vortex and a guy answered. He picked up the same model after I told him that I had the Talon, to compare it with my problem. He said that the focus had a little play in it but not as what was being described of my pair. I would rather there be zero play though. But I am not 100% sure of his definition of "a little play." Should I just go ahead and send it in hoping for the best? I am hoping that they look at the binocular they ship back out if replacing or otherwise I could get one back with similar problems - having me gotten nowhere.

I have noticed another weird thing with these bino's that I don't remember experiencing with the Monarchs. I noticed it when looking at a tower about 1/2 mile away and now can't stop noticing since figuring it out. It is pincushion distortion. Things past the center of field bend toward the side of the field it is nearest too - worse the further it gets to edge. Maybe this is a new observation simply because I went from a 5.5 (Monarch) to 6.6 FOV?


If the focus wheel bothers you enough, go ahead and try to get another pair, and see if it is better at all.  You won't be out much besides time.

You are right that the Monarch's narrow FOV is likely why you didn't notice the pincushion distortion as much with the monarch.  Having looked through many pairs (and owned one pair) of Monarchs, I am certain your monarchs had pincushion distortion.  It is a little odd that you are seeing it so close to the center of the field, though.

My Zen ED2s are pretty distortion free for about 75% of the field, and I can only see pincushion distortion when I look to the edge, and only when looking at a straight line, like a power line or roof line.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2011 at 00:08
Sefrez View Drop Down
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Yeah, the distortion is instant. As soon as the object (noticeably a straight line like a tower) is not in the center of field there is visible curvature, at least that I am able to pickup on with my eyes. So it is slight but I definitely see it to the point that the field looks curved throughout. So no, it's not just the edges. The whole field is like a concave semi-sphere with the edges being most curved. May I also add that the image blurs quite a bit near the edges.

Ill just put this down on the notes too I guess...

Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2011 at 20:33
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wow once ZR customer service realized I had a problem they contacted me at 8pm at night minutes after my complaint. 

Edited by m_freeman - August/10/2011 at 23:22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2011 at 22:09
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Originally posted by m_freeman m_freeman wrote:

my ZR ED1 are grinding and have play in the focus wheel, the eyecup falls off, the lens covers are worthless without mods. I didn't think I would need to register the warranty card so now I am stuck with a junk $400.00 paperweight. I think I will buy a pair of Trinivoids off ebay as I am beginnig to believe all the Chinese wonders have a 1 year service life. Geez my wife has 15 year old pair of ultra cheap Bushnells she got from Costco for $40.00 way back then that have a better mechanical build than these ZR ED1.


I see you left a poor Zen Ray Customer Service review in another thread m_freeman.  I just want you to know that you don't have to register the warranty card.  I did have some build issues with my ED1.  My gripes were fixed in the ED2, and by all accounts the ED3s are even better.  Give Zen Ray a chance to help you out. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 19:01
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m-freeman
 
Try some contact first and stay off the rants until there is a good reason for the rant.  Anything designed by human hands and minds can somethimes fail.  Posting everywhere mucks thing up a bit.  Icve no doubt things will work out ok, as they would have anyway, even without the multiple rants.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 20:07
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Originally posted by Klamath Klamath wrote:

m-freeman
 
Try some contact first and stay off the rants until there is a good reason for the rant.  Anything designed by human hands and minds can somethimes fail.  Posting everywhere mucks thing up a bit.  Icve no doubt things will work out ok, as they would have anyway, even without the multiple rants.
 
uhhh you missed the point entirely--I did try to contact them twice and got no response.


Edited by m_freeman - August/12/2011 at 20:13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2011 at 13:38
Klamath View Drop Down
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Originally posted by m_freeman m_freeman wrote:

Originally posted by Klamath Klamath wrote:

m-freeman
 
Try some contact first and stay off the rants until there is a good reason for the rant.  Anything designed by human hands and minds can somethimes fail.  Posting everywhere mucks thing up a bit.  Icve no doubt things will work out ok, as they would have anyway, even without the multiple rants.
 
uhhh you missed the point entirely--I did try to contact them twice and got no response.
If you would have kept what you posted up, the point you were trying to make would have still been clear.  Sorry, but it looked like the residue from a temper tantrum, on multiple threads.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2011 at 00:21
Sefrez View Drop Down
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I just wanted to update you all. I sent in the bino's on the 4th. It is now the 16th and I believe they received them on the 9th. So I am hoping that I will be getting a ship back soon. As I said, I also pointed out the field curvature in the repair form details. I would like to know more from others here on what kind of curvature they see in the ED2's, if anyone doesn't mind. I did a test by creating a checkered image on a sheet of paper and mounted it on a wall. I then set the binoculars on a table and looked at the sheet. My result was that there was quite visible curvature small amounts from the center of field. I could pick out a curved line 10% of the radius, maybe? Nonetheless, the last day I had them I tested them out on a field of trees and I got a bit of the rolling ball effect when I panned the view keeping my eyes centered in the field. It was slight but I saw how things shrunk as they progressed to the edge of the field.

I am hoping that this is not normal and that it is not simply my natural eye distortion is not well paired with their lenses. That would kinda suck! Whacko
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