New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - eye of the beholder
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

eye of the beholder

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 11:10
stateside View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: August/23/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 62
I am surprised as longtime lurker that more people just don't go to their local retail store. Look at the scopes in person that they interested in because, no eyes are the same. What looks good to one fella may be out of sorts for next on things like eye relief, vividness, brightness, etc?
Then look online for the best service and deal then pull the trigger.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 11:34
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7702
This is kinda a "doesn't need to be said" thing, but...

There is immense variability in vision from one person to another, but the physics of optical devices is pretty well established.  I am aware of no situations where the best in one's view is the worst in another's, or the other way around.

Observed differences tend to cluster at the extremes, people clinically blind or color blind, for instance.

Lastly, unless you plan to use your new optic in a store, "real world conditions" won't be exactly what you get.

I do agree that there is some advantage to having hands on a scope before buying, especially at the extremes (really good stuff or really not good stuff), but the utility is limited with any use until it is the circumstance in which the scope will see actual use, and few will let you drag their scope through the mud and use in a driving rain prior to purchase.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 11:39
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20475
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Lastly, unless you plan to use your new optic in a store, "real world conditions" won't be exactly what you get.



???


Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 12:51
stateside View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: August/23/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

This is kinda a "doesn't need to be said" thing, but...

There is immense variability in vision from one person to another, but the physics of optical devices is pretty well established.  I am aware of no situations where the best in one's view is the worst in another's, or the other way around.

Observed differences tend to cluster at the extremes, people clinically blind or color blind, for instance.

Lastly, unless you plan to use your new optic in a store, "real world conditions" won't be exactly what you get.

I do agree that there is some advantage to having hands on a scope before buying, especially at the extremes (really good stuff or really not good stuff), but the utility is limited with any use until it is the circumstance in which the scope will see actual use, and few will let you drag their scope through the mud and use in a driving rain prior to purchase.


I guess I went right to the extremes -what one person loves the next will hate-
I realize its not quite that way. Still I have borrowed rifle/scope combos from relatives and friends that I was just better off not using in the first place. Even though they were just right for the owners. Real world conditions seem pretty difficult predict for someone else just as judging real world conditions in sporting goods store.

A fair amount of trial and error seems to be unavoidable. Kinda like buying shoes on-line -box of chocolates-
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 15:10
3_tens View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2007
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7180
You will find that most of the sportsmen wrongly consider that all 3-9X40 scopes are the same because they are the same power range. The only scopes they have ever had were Walmart or at best a Box pro sportsman branded version of the same for a higher price. They never have the opportunity to compare a lesser scope, progressivly up the line thru the better or premium scope side by side as the sun sets. Where one can see how much time is gained with the better glass. Or how it is easier to distinguish  your game from the background with a scope that has higher contrast. The biggest misconception of all is that magnification determines clarity at distance. Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 18:31
JD548 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: June/29/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 147
i was going to get wally-world to let me look through their scopes first but they said

"you got to pay first to open the blister pack!"
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 19:14
Son of Ed View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar

Joined: June/18/2011
Location: TEXAS
Status: Offline
Points: 53912
Shocked  those darn blister packs!!   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 21:25
stateside View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: August/23/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

You will find that most of the sportsmen wrongly consider that all 3-9X40 scopes are the same because they are the same power range. The only scopes they have ever had were Walmart or at best a Box pro sportsman branded version of the same for a higher price. They never have the opportunity to compare a lesser scope, progressivly up the line thru the better or premium scope side by side as the sun sets. Where one can see how much time is gained with the better glass. Or how it is easier to distinguish  your game from the background with a scope that has higher contrast. The biggest misconception of all is that magnification determines clarity at distance. Loco



I suppose that is true but, I was talking about Cabela's, bass pro shops, etc. not Walmart, target, etc.
I would guess that 3x9 scopes minus the around $100 and under. Depends as much on who is looking through as said $300 $500 $1000 scope. I participated in a test last year at a sportings good store. They took a half dozen scopes that you could not see the manufactures name on. And asked you to look through in a few varied conditions out in back of the store like in low light, direct light, shadows, etc.
I liked the second cheapest best - go figure. I am not a pro tester or anything of the like but, my eye preferred a under $300 one over $700 and $900 one.
Just like buying a firearm I for one need to see a scope firsthand before any purchase.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2013 at 23:09
3_tens View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2007
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7180
I did not say the highest price was best for a specific use. I have a Weaver V-9 bought new in 1968 In good daylight has a fantastic view. But 15 minutes after sunset it is near worthless. Side it to a Zeiss Conquest 3-9 and you can see long past the 30 minutes after sunset legal shooting time. Yet in good light they are close to equal to my eyes when looking at a resolution chart at 500 yards. One good thing about SWFA. If you are not happy with a scope before you mount it, ship it back undamaged and exchange it for something else. Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 08:54
stateside View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: August/23/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Check out the scopes at sporting goods store in low light, rain/snow, etc. then pick the one that appeals best to your eye. Purchase at swfa with their 110% price guarantee. Lessened the trial and error for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 11:05
SEMO Shooter View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/06/2013
Location: SE Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 127
I would be happy to go to my local retail store if:
(A) They actually had some inventory other than the really cheap scopes
(B) They weren't 25% or more expensive than the online stores
(C) They had anyone working there that has actual knowledge about scopes

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 11:11
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20475
Originally posted by SEMO Shooter SEMO Shooter wrote:

I would be happy to go to my local retail store if:
(A) They actually had some inventory other than the really cheap scopes
(B) They weren't 25% or more expensive than the online stores
(C) They had anyone working there that has actual knowledge about scopes


Outstanding post. Isn't that the truth? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 11:26
Sparky View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire


Joined: July/15/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 3194
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by SEMO Shooter SEMO Shooter wrote:

I would be happy to go to my local retail store if:
(A) They actually had some inventory other than the really cheap scopes
(B) They weren't 25% or more expensive than the online stores
(C) They had anyone working there that has actual knowledge about scopes


Outstanding post. Isn't that the truth? 


+1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 12:01
stateside View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: August/23/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 62
The one where I live has most of the high end low end and everything in between. Yes, they are overpriced so why buy anything from them? I just use them to see products up close and new products. I just hunt for meat not being made of money and far from being a crack shot. Buying high end of anything would be practicing in foolishness even more so when its impossible for me to tell the difference other than cosmetic preferences.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 12:03
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 27633
Originally posted by JD548 JD548 wrote:

i was going to get wally-world to let me look through their scopes first but they said

"you got to pay first to open the blister pack!"
 
 
Here is a hint.... NO GOOD scope comes in a blister.....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 15:29
JD548 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: June/29/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 147
wally-world has mostly nikons and the rest are blister pack bushnells, center-points  and tascos .

at one time they had some leupold riflemen --but they were sooo pricy for what they were --LOL


hell at wally-world a blister pack is a sign of "quality" -- (LOL)


even if your looking for a cheap china made scope your odds are probably better buying them from a real outdoor sporting hunting place than a 'box store".

i suspect that when a big box store cuts the whole sale price the jobber goes to china and grabs a container of 'seconds-rejects and out of spec" items and loads that retailer up.

i have noticed that china made optics i have bought from gun,ammo supply, real sporting goods stores seem to be worth the $$--even though they ain't top glass. they work and track well with decent glass.



the ones i had fail came from ebay, big box stores , and so on.

to the OP if your wanting a 'good quality scope" without paying outrageous prices --this is the place. one of the few that will really cut you a deal.


just check the sample list -- you can get a nice nikon for just a hair more than a "junk" scope goes for.

and there is a good deal from time to time in the for sale section.

there are some good $100-$150 scopes here if you look around.

burrises, nikons, bushnells . redfields , weavers--  BTW take a look at the k6 weaver --LOL

many-many deer bit the big one after a hit from a rifle with a sub $200 scope



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 17:13
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9531
Quality optics make the hunting or shooting experience much much more enjoyable IMO.  Especially binos.

IMO anyone who claims a sub $100 scope looks as good as a $400 to $500 scope has not spent a lot of time using them to really know the diff.  It's just lack of experience.  And holding a scope up to your eye whether you are in a store our outside doesn't cut it, thats a terrible way to evaluate a rifle scope.  It needs to be mounted and setup to where you can use it properly. 

I hunted for years with a $40 bushnell on my .243.  Then I bought a used 7mm and it had a Leupold Vari-X 1 on it.  The difference was crazy noticeable in all lighting conditions, I really enjoyed that upgrade.  Then years later I bought an IOR 3-18x and my eyes were opened up to a whole new world.  I could actually see  in low light, I could look almost into the sun and my scope did not white out on me.  I didn't get eye fatigue using my scope for long periods of time etc.  It was amazing.  Now I cannot handle using cheap scopes.  Most of my scopes are priced in the $300 to $400 range and they do great and get the job done.  I have a few in the $800 $1000 range one in the low teen range and one in the high teen range.  Yes I can tell a difference as price goes up, it may not be huge but it is there.   

If I could afford it, I would only have Swaro, Victory, and Leica scopes.  Man they would be enjoyable to use. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 17:28
Son of Ed View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar

Joined: June/18/2011
Location: TEXAS
Status: Offline
Points: 53912
Years ago I was at a store in Longview, Texas that had a huge Wall-Sized Plate Glass Window.  I had some time to kill so I wanted to look through every scope that I had ever wanted to handle....and they had them all. I looked through everything---out that big window into the parking lot, grass, and beyond....

Finally, I asked the guy to hand me a 30mm Swarovski scope.....


HOLY CRAP!!!  What a freaking difference!!!    Shocked  


Now if I could just afford to buy one of those dern things!!!   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 19:57
stateside View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: August/23/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 62
The few scopes have are also in the $300 to $500 range.
I would love to have $1200 scope on any of my old junkers like my used rem. 700 classic but, then again LOL

Kinda like putting 20's on yugo - silly'ness.

I learned long ago spending more than I have never solves anything.

"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way" Mark Twain
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2013 at 20:55
stateside View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: August/23/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Chances are the three or four brands of scopes I presently have are made in the same factory somewhere China. Overseas is the new america.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2013 at 07:55
pricedo View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: May/02/2012
Status: Offline
Points: 6
The higher end Bushnell scopes (Legend and above) are decent scopes as are the Leupold "Rifleman" series but I've had SimmonsProtest, TascoProtest & BarskaProtest junkers quit on me at bad times.

Can't understand guys who trust the success of hunts that cost thousands of dollars to a $49.99 junk scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2013 at 12:07
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1724
Originally posted by stateside stateside wrote:

Chances are the three or four brands of scopes I presently have are made in the same factory somewhere China. Overseas is the new america.
The US administration is trying to move US into the space which those overseas people abandoned as unlivable.
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "eye of the beholder"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Good Eye Box and Eye Relief Options ? envy500 Rifle Scopes 18
Longer Eye-Relief Big Game Scope Hypnogator Rifle Scopes 12
SS Eye Relief Question DonDavis Rifle Scopes 1
What determines eye relief in a scope? tpcollins Rifle Scopes 6
ring height and eye aligment sig357fan Rings and bases 7
Need long eye relief scope suggestions igotta40 Rifle Scopes 13
Question/Issue with Athlon...shrinking eye box? catorres1 Rifle Scopes 10
Some eye candy 320yds.... 8shots The Range Report 11
10x42SS on AR Eye Relief rdb8847 Rings and bases 2
Is it my eyes?... Zero Rifle Scopes 25


This page was generated in 0.343 seconds.