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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2009 at 18:59
Al Nyhus View Drop Down
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    Thought I'd post a pic of a new scope setup I'm going to be working with on one of my BR rigs shortly.
 
    It's a Sightron SII 36x. The w/e adjustments are removed and the erector tube is then located in the exact center of the tube and a special cage fabricated to locate the rear gimble pivot for the tube assembly.  The assy is then epoxied into place. The result is no possible movement of the erector tube as the gun is fired.
 
    The external adjustment mount is made by TSI. The w/e adjustments are made via the thin stainless knob visible just forward of the occular (elevation) and just to the left of it (windage). The small threaded knob on the bolt handle side (at an upward angle) contains a heavy spring that keeps the w/e in position. It can also be locked down to mechanically lock the w/e adjustment. As the w/e adjustments are made, the tensioned bar in front of the front ring bends to allow the mount to move.
 
   Kind of a 'back to the future' approach to wringing out every bit of accuracy possible with these rigs.
 
    Hope you enjoy the pic and seeing some of the stuff being tinkered with. Smile  -Al


Edited by Al Nyhus - April/18/2009 at 22:43
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2009 at 19:18
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Very interesting setup, Al. Could you please provide more details on the rifle as well? And maybe some results, when available?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2009 at 20:54
Al Nyhus View Drop Down
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Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

Very interesting setup, Al. Could you please provide more details on the rifle as well? And maybe some results, when available?
 
    John:  it's a much modified RFD action, RB/LP, barrel is a Rock 1:17, chambered for the 30BR.  All action and chambering work were done by my good pal Stan Ware at SGR Custom Rifles in Westbrook, Mn.  I do all my own stock work and it's pillar bedded in a Bruno/McMillan pattern BR stock. The snakeskin pattern is a hydro dipped finish. Trigger is a Jewell. If you look closely, you'll see a Beggs tuner on the muzzle...basically a set of two rings that are adjustable to possibly help keep the tuneup stable through the  heat/humidity/density altitude changes we encounter during a tournament. Or not. We'll see.  Here's a better pic of the Beggs muzzle device. Not the greatest pics, but you'll get the idea:
 
 
    The gun came to me as a 'basket case' project via my good friend Randy Robinett at BIB Bullets. With Stan's help, the action issues that had plagued it from the beginning were resolved and it's now back in service as a LV (Light Varmint 10.5 lb.) class BR rifle. I did quite a bit of testing with it before taking it to it's first BR tournament where I ended up second via the Creedmore tie breaker rule.
 
    I make my own .30 cal. BR bullets (Dakota B1's) and that's been a really fun and enjoyable learning experience. Here's a pic of five, 5 shot groups I shot with this rifle and my 117's during an August test session:
 
 
    I shot it last season with a non-modified Sightron SII 36X and no muzzle tuner. Now that I have a good baseline to go from, I can work with the locked up scope/tuner and see where it takes me. Initially I'll not have the tuner on and will get a feel for the scope situation. If I'm satisfied with it, I'll work with the tuner at that point.
 
     Stan builds great rifles!
 
     Thanks for the interest...hope I'm not straying too far off topic by posting this here.
 
     Good shootin' and be well. Smile  -Al
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2009 at 21:16
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Thanks very much. The design of the muzzle tuner is interesting. It will also be interesting to see how it shoots now.
 
Right now we are contending with the standard spring Montana winds along the front of the mountains, but now and then get out (with wind flags) and pop a few caps.
 
Thanks very much, and you be well too!
 
John
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2009 at 21:21
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 Great to see some real Benchrest stuff here.
 Thanks for posting that, Al.
 You guys do some interesting things!
 Is the action a Left port or do you remove the bolt to load it?
 I assume you shoot it in some sort of free-recoil technique; sort of hands-off?
 If you ever want to take the camera along and walk us through a match, I think a lot of us would be amazed to see some of the equipment you guys use and the results you achieve with it.
 Great Thread!
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2009 at 21:43
Al Nyhus View Drop Down
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   Ronk: It's a left sided loading port.  Being a .30, it's almost impossible to free-recoil this gun and still be able to shoot as well at the end of the day as the beginning. It also shoots better with a firm hold vs. the free-recoil technique.   -Al
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 00:41
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Love the snakeskin.
 
Must be a bitch to boresight, not to mention getting a good cheekweld.
 
And
So that's what it takes to get a Sightron to hold zero.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 06:40
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WOW NICE
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 06:42
Al Nyhus View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Shenko Shenko wrote:

Must be a bitch to boresight, not to mention getting a good cheekweld.
 
   I do all my boresighting at 100 yds. the 'old school' way. With this gun, the first shot went 2" lt. and 1" high from my boresight. A quick re-boresight and I moved the reticle to the first hole....and the second shot went through the first hole. I lined the reticle up on the one big bullet hole, moved it to the X dot on a target.... and the third shot was a dead center 'X'. The 'X' ring on our targets we shoot at in competition is actually a .0625 (1/16") dot at 100 yds.
 
   Cheekweld is something you don't want on a BR rig like this. Having the scopes mounted high also allows you to see the windflags better and you can get 'squared up' behind the gun so your shoulder is better aligned with the butt of the stock. Having the scope mounted high also gives an apparent flatter trajectory.
 
 
Originally posted by Shenko Shenko wrote:

So that's what it takes to get a Sightron to hold zero.
 
    This modification is commonly done to Sightrons, the older Leupold BR series scopes, the Weaver T36's and the newer Leupold Competition Series 35X-45X scopes.
 
    The targets I posted were shot with an unmodified, out-of-the-box Sightron SII 36X scope that I've used for 4 years on another BR gun of mine....seems to work okay. Roll Eyes
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 07:59
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Great write up thanks -- see what you mean on a previous post about cheek weld being over rated. a question if possible, what do you mean apparent  flatter traj. -- sounds interesting--- also if you got time-- how do you make your bullets?? swage (corbin) or something also what does into the design?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 08:14
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Outstanding thread in every way! Well done, Al!

Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 09:08
Al Nyhus View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

a question if possible, what do you mean apparent  flatter traj.?
 
 
    Dale: the higher the scope is from the center of the bore, the less adjustment you need to make from your initial 'zero' as you go further out. That's why when you look at drop tables for ballistics, the scope height above the bore is an important part of the equation. Of course, it doesn't change the ballistics of the cartridge at all...just a bit of a physics trick that makes it seem that way. But it's a nice benefit when you're trying to keep the w/e adjustments centered in the scope...which is where the optical gurus tell us the scopes work best at. Honestly,  I don't get too concerned about this. As long as the optics are relatively close, I've never seen an issue. But I have seen some squirrley scope behavior as the adjustments get close to the end of their travel range. Which is another reason that w/e systems like the Weaver MicroTrac and Sightron ExactTrac systems work well.
 
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

also if you got time-- how do you make your bullets?? swage (corbin) or something also what does into the design?
 
    I use bullet dies made by Larry Blackmon. The Corbin dies will make bullets...but not at the level of precision you need to compete in todays competitive BR world.
 
     Here's a quick overview of my setup...
 
     I buy my core material in 50 lb. spools with a specific lead/antimony mix for the core hardness I want. To cut it, I mount a spool of wire on a center and cut it a length that gives me 25 cores per length..easy for my brain to keep track of.
 
      Here's some cores after they have been through the core 'squirt' die. The squirt die brings them up to size and 'squirts' off the excess material to arrive at the desired core weight.
 
      I made up a Delrin 'stuffing block' that holds 200 jackets. You drop the cores into the jackets and then seat them. Here's 200 ready for cores and seating.
 
     The cores are then seated in the J4 jackets. Core seating pressure/method is where you make or break a bullets accuracy...all else being the same. This is 1,000 cores seated in the jackets and ready to be pointed up.
 
     Finished bullets from the point die.
 
     Thanks for the interest. Forgive the tangent.....I'm probably pizzin' people off on an optics board...talking about bullet making, blah, blah, blah. Brick Hit
 
    


Edited by Al Nyhus - April/19/2009 at 09:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 09:21
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Not at all Al, great stuff.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 09:26
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 (QUOTE) .... I'm probably pizzin' people off on an optics board... talking about bullet making, blah, blah,blah. (Quote)
 
I'm sure you'll be notified when it becomes a problem for somebody.
 It wouldn't have been as interesting a thread if we talked only about the scope.
 
Let's just call this a "Big Screen Thread"...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 12:47
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Very interesting stuff Al.  I always wondered how that was done.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 12:51
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Originally posted by Al Nyhus Al Nyhus wrote:

Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

Very interesting setup, Al. Could you please provide more details on the rifle as well? And maybe some results, when available?
 
    John:  it's a much modified RFD action, RB/LP, barrel is a Rock 1:17, chambered for the 30BR.  All action and chambering work were done by my good pal Stan Ware at SGR Custom Rifles in Westbrook, Mn.  I do all my own stock work and it's pillar bedded in a Bruno/McMillan pattern BR stock. The snakeskin pattern is a hydro dipped finish. Trigger is a Jewell. If you look closely, you'll see a Beggs tuner on the muzzle...basically a set of two rings that are adjustable to possibly help keep the tuneup stable through the  heat/humidity/density altitude changes we encounter during a tournament. Or not. We'll see.  Here's a better pic of the Beggs muzzle device. Not the greatest pics, but you'll get the idea:
 
 
    The gun came to me as a 'basket case' project via my good friend Randy Robinett at BIB Bullets. With Stan's help, the action issues that had plagued it from the beginning were resolved and it's now back in service as a LV (Light Varmint 10.5 lb.) class BR rifle. I did quite a bit of testing with it before taking it to it's first BR tournament where I ended up second via the Creedmore tie breaker rule.
 
    I make my own .30 cal. BR bullets (Dakota B1's) and that's been a really fun and enjoyable learning experience. Here's a pic of five, 5 shot groups I shot with this rifle and my 117's during an August test session:
 
 
    I shot it last season with a non-modified Sightron SII 36X and no muzzle tuner. Now that I have a good baseline to go from, I can work with the locked up scope/tuner and see where it takes me. Initially I'll not have the tuner on and will get a feel for the scope situation. If I'm satisfied with it, I'll work with the tuner at that point.
 
     Stan builds great rifles!
 
     Thanks for the interest...hope I'm not straying too far off topic by posting this here.
 
     Good shootin' and be well. Smile  -Al
 
 
Al,
If you tighten your groups any more you will think you missed the target after the first shotClown Great post.
Sam
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 13:08
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Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 19:40
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Dale: the higher the scope is from the center of the bore, the less adjustment you need to make from your initial 'zero' as you go further out
more questions if you don't mind.  as you go further out  -- is this in distance or further out in the scope elevation?? at 100 yds the bullet is still climbing and the converging angle between bore sight and poi would be greater. what is the max. ht. you like, from bore to line to scope axis line, to you use a straighter stock comb like an ar, to keep the head up??
 
what kind of method do you use for quality control of your bullets??? does the last die which closes the bullet, still make a hollow point or does it close it off?? Where did you get the lead wire?? Are the jackets made commercially?
sorry for the questions but this is interesting stuff.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 19:46
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This thing looks insane. I would like to see some video with you firing this thing.Nice job.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 20:06
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JFREE98 ,sorry dude you will have to eliminate your........ add/site that you promote or it will be removed from the moderators? we do not advertise the competition.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 20:33
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Thanks Al.I figured BR got pretty in depth but wow.Im going to go clean my 10/22 now in the fetal position.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 07:37
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Originally posted by 1984 1984 wrote:

Thanks Al.I figured BR got pretty in depth but wow.Im going to go clean my 10/22 now in the fetal position.
 
Excellent 
 Yeah, no kidding!
 So Al, do you have any suggestions on how I can get my Mini 30 to shoot like that?
 Or preferably even better?
You seemed to have a couple 'flyers" in a few of those groups.
 
 (Not being critical, just sayin"...,)   Bucky
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 07:44
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holy cow that thing shoots scary accurate!! nice stuff al!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 14:53
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Thanks for the interest. Forgive the tangent.....I'm probably pizzin' people off on an optics board...talking about bullet making, blah, blah, blah.

Not at all. This is very interesting, thanks for the post.

So where does one go to find out about bench rest competitions in their area?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 15:37
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Sparky.  What part of the world are you in?  I'm sure one of the members would be close enough to recommend a club or match.
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