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EPA looking at banning traditional ammo

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 17:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 17:55
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Let me add to that:
All Gun Owners, Hunters and Shooters:
With the fall hunting season fast approaching, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) under Lisa Jackson, who was responsible for banning bear hunting in New Jersey, is now considering a petition by the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) - a leading anti-hunting organization - to ban all traditional ammunition under the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976, a law in which Congress expressly exempted ammunition. If the EPA approves the petition, the result will be a total ban on all ammunition containing lead-core components, including hunting and target-shooting rounds. The EPA must decide to accept or reject this petition by November 1, 2010, the day before the midterm elections.

Today, the EPA has opened to public comment the CBD petition. The comment period ends on October 31, 2010.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) -- the trade association for the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industry -- urges you to submit comment to the EPA opposing any ban on traditional ammunition. Remember, your right to choose the ammunition you hunt and shoot with is at stake.

The EPA has published the petition and relevant supplemental information as Docket ID: EPA-HQ-OPPT-2010-0681. If you would like to read the original petition and see the contents of this docket folder, please click here. In order to go directly to the 'submit a comment' page for this docket number, please click here.

NSSF urges you to stress the following in your opposition:

There is no scientific evidence that the use of traditional ammunition is having an adverse impact on wildlife populations.
Wildlife management is the proper jurisdiction of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services and the 50 state wildlife agencies.
A 2008 study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on blood lead levels of North Dakota hunters confirmed that consuming game harvested with traditional ammunition does not pose a human health risk.
A ban on traditional ammunition would have a negative impact on wildlife conservation. The federal excise tax that manufacturers pay on the sale of the ammunition (11 percent) is a primary source of wildlife conservation funding. The bald eagle's recovery, considered to be a great conservation success story, was made possible and funded by hunters using traditional ammunition - the very ammunition organizations like the CBD are now demonizing.

Recent statistics from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service show that from 1981 to 2006 the number of breeding pairs of bald eagles in the United States increased 724 percent. And much like the bald eagle, raptor populations throughout the United States are soaring.


Steps to take:

1. Submit comment online to the EPA.

Contact Lisa Jackson directly to voice your opposition to the ban:
Lisa P. Jackson
Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20460
(202) 564-4700
Fax: (202) 501-1450
Email: jackson.lisa@epa.gov


3. Contact your congressman and senators and urge them to stop the EPA from banning ammunition.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 18:40
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First its lead core bullets, what will be next; a recall on eggs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 18:55
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... and most fishing weights, lures with lead heads, etc...  Roll Eyes

Well you can thank Obama for nominating EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson and the US Senate for confirming her.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 19:00
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We all know it's not about environment. It's all about politics and money. Some of them are big political campain contributors. And guess what some politicians are doing? Whatever the **** these contributors want, no matter how stupid their agendas are. The same thing was happening on Alaska not too long ago. Some very smart people with a lot of wisdom and money tried to ban oil drilling saying that number of Polar bears will decrease dramatically because of it (no solid evidence was ever presented). Well, it never happened. In fact, the number of bears had doubled in the last 10 years.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 19:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 21:31
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the university of wyoming of all places did a study on lead poisoning of prairie dog towns, and claimed that shooters not only killed prairie dogs with lead, they killed hawks, owls and eagles to name a few bird species from second hand ingestion. the FRICKIN Univ. of WYOMING.. are you kidding me?? when i read about that i almost had to renounce my allegiance to the home land.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 21:45
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the university of wyoming of all places did a study on lead poisoning of prairie dog towns, and claimed that shooters not only killed prairie dogs with lead, they killed hawks, owls and eagles to name a few bird species from second hand ingestion. the FRICKIN Univ. of WYOMING.. are you kidding me?? when i read about that i almost had to renounce my allegiance to the home land.


On Aug. 6, 2009, officials of Grand Teton National Park and National Elk Refuge issued an announcement asking hunters to voluntarily switch to non-lead ammunition for the 2009 elk and bison seasons.

http://gtnpnews.blogspot.com/2009/08/voluntary-use-of-non-lead-ammunition.html

Sad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 22:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 22:07
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LOL, sorry Pyro!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2010 at 22:10
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they should take that whole northwest corner of the state starting in pinedale and include jackson hole and the two parks and make it a foreign country. cant do this cant do that, and they wonder why tourism and such in that area fell to hell.Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2010 at 07:04
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Never gonna happen.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2010 at 16:09
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SmileAs a subtitute for lead how about depleted uranium? If that freaks out folks, bismuth could be considered. How about $40 - $125 per 50, .30 cal 168 grain BTHP match bullets? I don't plan to eat lead core bullets or shot and the amount of lead in game meat can easily be avoided by humans or is not important for non-humans that eat animal body parts left on site. The next time a coyote eats a gut pile from one of my successful hunts should I worry about it?
 
Remember this among other things when you or others close to you vote this November.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2010 at 22:50
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Well those EPA statists backed down right quick. The internet was afire today with protests and I'm sure Congress got an earful today.
It was quite interesting to read posts from the elitists who support the EPA's effort. The 'progressive' posters (poseurs) rarely had a grasp on the issue and frequently threw insults at all who protested. It's interesting how always, always the elites and wannabes believe themselves superior to everyone else. Wearing the mask of compassion, they are quick to raise the call to send armed government against you.

If this was some left- handed gov't. attempt to flush out those patriots for whom this might have been the last straw, then it was surely a success. There were more than a few posts hinting at which bureaucrats would be the likeliest to die from lead poisoning and whole choirs of "come and get 'em".
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 00:16
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Question for you U.S. folks...
 
When you go bird hunting (duck/quail/turkey etc) do you have to use steel shot??? (we have to over here)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 06:12
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Federal law is non-tox for waterfowl. In Michigan lead is OK for upland(pheasant, grouse, woodcock).

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 06:19
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Federal law is non-tox for waterfowl. In Michigan lead is OK for upland(pheasant, grouse, woodcock).


its that way in minnesota too, im sure a lot of states are like that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 07:37
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Originally posted by The Apostle The Apostle wrote:

Question for you U.S. folks...
 
When you go bird hunting (duck/quail/turkey etc) do you have to use steel shot??? (we have to over here)
Steel shot is only required for waterfowl in Oklahoma due to the federal mandate. However, I've noticed that some public hunting areas now require non- lead projectiles. I'm not sure if those lands have a federal connection or if we have an infiltrator in the Wildlife Department.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 11:31
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The whole thing is actually incrementalism. That's the whole nut right there. Far more lead is entering the water every year from fishing weights, than from hunting bullets/pellets. The bottom line is taxation/fines to get around a Constitutional issue. It is an infringement issue, and we gun enthusiasts see it for what it is. These anti gun elitists, will do anything to get around our Constitution. No amount of trickery is beneath them. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 12:10
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Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

The whole thing is actually incrementalism. That's the whole nut right there. Far more lead is entering the water every year from fishing weights, than from hunting bullets/pellets. The bottom line is taxation/fines to get around a Constitutional issue. It is an infringement issue, and we gun enthusiasts see it for what it is. These anti gun elitists, will do anything to get around our Constitution. No amount of trickery is beneath them. 


So true.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 14:15
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Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

The whole thing is actually incrementalism. 


Yep, that's right!  Politicians know that they can't express their real agendas outright because they wouldn't get votes.  So, they advocate "sensible" new regulations that move the bar an inch at a time toward tyranny, and the result is we lose our liberties on the installment plan.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 14:39
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"The rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" Therefore any means of imposition that would preclude, via excessive taxation, legislation, bench decree/precedent, is in fact a Constitutional issue, and as such should be stricken down immediately. This is where the ideology of a "living" Constitution can readily show the danger that it represents to the freedom of this Country. It is this ideology that one will use to argue that in this day and time the original content is secondary to the needs/interest of the present.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2010 at 16:08
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Federal law is non-tox for waterfowl. In Michigan lead is OK for upland(pheasant, grouse, woodcock).



Same here, (dove, quail, etc. - OK)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2010 at 00:56
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I don't want to get into a political argument. I'm a hunter, sport shooter, and biochemist. I have stopped using lead because it is inarguably toxic- that is not debatable. I have 2 kids and I don't want them to eat venison unless it was harvested with copper bullets. Human blood lead studies have recently been finished showing that eating lead-shot venison increases Pb levels. You can't necessarily avoid avoid fragments by removing the wound channel. Again, not political, just scientific. Look at the data and make up your own mind but don't dismiss it as left-wing conspiracy. You can see data including x-rays of game taken with jacketed lead bullets and decide for yourself. 

http://www.ndhealth.gov/lead/venison/
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/lead/index.html


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2010 at 09:14
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This item from http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/fish_wildlife/lead/bulletstudy/resources/huntertips.pdf struck me as a major reason for lead fragmentation. Properly placed shots tend to exit the animal, e.g. rib cage right behind the foreleg. And they are the most immediately lethal. I haven't recovered a bullet in a deer for years and will pass up a shot unless I can put it in the lungs or heart. Now that's mitigation.

5. SHOT PLACEMENT CAN MINIMIZE YOUR EXPOSURE TO LEAD
The study showed that a shot into the hind-quarters, where heavy bones are located, will result in high and widespread fragmentation in the meatiest part of the animal. Hunters need to choose their shots wisely and maintain their marksmanship skills.


(Gotta wonder what kind of "hunter" ruins the hindquarters of a game animal).


Edited by jonoMT - September/16/2010 at 09:15
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