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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 10:12
mark101 View Drop Down
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Fellows, 
             I am a new member her. I found this place through one of your members on another forum. I have a Stag Arms M5L in 6.8SPC, and can no longer pick up the standard military peep, even with corrective lens. For the last three or four days I have taken a crash course on holographic sights. Previous to this I had zero knowledge on the subject. Right now, with my admittedly limited understanding, I am leaning toward the EOtech 512, and 516. I'm not really sure if I understand the difference between these two sights, and then some write-ups list variants of these models, without a description of what these variants are. I'm trying to assimilate all I have taken in and trying to make a logical, good decision, but must admit, my head is spinning a bit. Also, what would be a good choice for a mounting base, that will lift the sight above the front sight post? 
            Most of my shooting will be at the range, out to 200 yards, and hunting with ranges around here seldom exceeding 150 yards. Thank you all!
Mark 101
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 10:24
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First, welcome!

Next, play with an EoTech before you buy!

The 512 has buttons on the back (controls for on/off and reticle intensity.)  On the 516, the buttons are on the side.  Also, the 512 takes a AA battery while the 516 takes a litium battery (AA is prefered.)

The options you speak of are probably camo finishes.


Depending on the application, you might also consider a red dot site.  Holo reticles are pixilated, which really bothers some people, while red dots are not.  I recommend you look at both before buying one.

Most mounting solutions are set up for "co-witnessing", meaning you can see the front site and the rear site through the scope - most will put the irons in the lower 1/3 of the field of view.  Be advised that if you lift the site high enough to not see the front site, you now have a MUCH higher cheek weld and you have moved the line of site far above the bore - which can make thins tricky.

If you do go with the EoTech, the AA battery version is worth the extra cash, it is far easier to find batteries in a pinch for that scope than it is for the lithium-powered units.

I have a 6.8 and like it allot, it is now my go-to hog gun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 10:33
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Can you use the new AA lithium batts in these?   It should work okay.  That would be sweet if you could, I bought a set for my LED flashlight and am estimating over 40 hours of light out of it based on battery and light specs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 10:49
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You can sue rechargeable AAs in anything that takes an AA battery (that does not specifically say "do not use...".

My experience with rechargeable is that they aren't quite as good as the maker claims they are.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 10:52
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Not the rechargables, but the new Lithium style of AAs.  http://www.energizer.com/products/hightech-batteries/lithium/Pages/lithium-batteries.aspx

I would think they would be okay since they are still just 1.5 volt, but would want to double check with Eotech before I tried it in a $500 sight.  If they did work you would have the advantages of long life with the ease of AA batts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 11:56
mark101 View Drop Down
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Well, I would prefer to use standard batteries, I hadn't noticed that. 
What do you mean by, "pixilated"? I like the 1MOA feature, does that mean the dot doesn't appear crisp to some viewers?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 12:19
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It means the dot does not appear crisp to any viewers I know.  The dot of a red dot is a singlular point of light.  In contrast, the EoTech reticle is made up of pixels and gives something of a screen-door effect.  The dot is pretty well defined, but not as crisp or clear as a red dot.

I have one, I like it, it is great for CQB but not great for longer ranges.

THis is why I say look at both first (if possible) before buying.  The pixelated reticle botehrs me, but it is faster on target than a red dot - due to larger field of view and a larger circle around the inner dot.

Both have their palce (red dot and holo) and both do something well that the other does not, all depends on preference and what is most needed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 13:25
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I went to the local gun shop and purchased a used, cheap, Simmons red dot and a polymer riser block for a grand total of $30.00. I figure for that kind of money I can, at the very least, get an idea of what this is all about. I don't know for sure, but I estimate the MOA of the dot is around 3"-4". I'm not too concerned about that, I just wanted to look through something like this, to get the idea, and experience how my eyes would pick up something like this. I like what I saw, and even though the dot was fading out, low battery no doubt, I was able to get a 1-1/2" group. I am convinced that I am on the right path! Now, all I have to do is decide which sight and riser block to buy. I am a little troubled with the idea that the dot would not appear to be crisp on the EOtech 512. The other sight I was considering is an aimpoint Comp 4. Its a little pricey, and I'm not sure I want to spend that kind of money, on the other hand, I'm only going to do this one time, and don't want to end up with something that will be a source of frustration, like a fuzzy dot. I would appreciate any more thought on this, or alternatives that I should consider.
mark101
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 13:33
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I have had a couple of the cheaper dots and also used an aimpoint and Eotech a little.  In a class I took they had a machine that had metal targets pop up and down and you have to be able to get on target pretty quick.  I found the Eotech to be much faster than the Aimpoint.  It was easier for my eye to pick up while searching for the target.  But when we got to shoot longer range i.e. 100 yards I much prefered the Aimpoint.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 13:44
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Mark,

Don't assume all red dots are similar to the one you have, the good stuff is significantly better.

Buy once, cry once.  Get what you need, even if it means saving for a few weeks/months/years.  If the one you have is serviceable, save up for the Aimpoint, you will be glad you did..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 13:54
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Rancid, I never had any plans to keep the "Simmons". I had never looked through a scope of this type before, that was my intent. I do assume the, for the money, an EOtech or aimpoint would be a much better sight picture. The aimpoint looks to come with an its own riser block.
Mark
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 14:04
mark101 View Drop Down
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Oh yeah, where do you go for the best prices on these things?
Mark
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 14:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 15:38
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Can you use the new AA lithium batts in these?   It should work okay.  That would be sweet if you could, I bought a set for my LED flashlight and am estimating over 40 hours of light out of it based on battery and light specs.

I keep lithium AA batteries in my EOTech 512 and 552 because it boosts battery life over 1000 hours vs 600hrs for alkaline AA or lithium CR123. What RC was referring to as lithium batteries were actually CR123 lithium batteries like the ones used in most modern tactical flashlights.

512.A65 = 2x AA battery, buttons to the rear, fully co-witnessed
517.A65 = 2x AA battery, buttons on the side, fully co-witnessed?
516.A65 = 2x CR123 battery, buttons on the side, 1/3 co-witnessed
XPS2-1 = 1x CR123, unknown, unknown


Edited by sholling - September/15/2009 at 00:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 15:44
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Yeah, I knew he was referring to those, I hate those batteries for anything. 

I was just wondering about the AA lithiums, which you filled me in on.  Thanks for the info.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 15:46
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Originally posted by mark101 mark101 wrote:

What do you mean by, "pixilated"? I like the 1MOA feature, does that mean the dot doesn't appear crisp to some viewers?

Pixilated means that the circle is made up of little tiny squares instead of a smoothly drawn circle, like a pixilated image on a computer except that the square pixils are a tiny 1 MOA in size. and the central 1 MOA dot is a tiny square. I do suggest looking through both styles. I personally like the circle dot a lot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 15:52
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Yeah, I knew he was referring to those, I hate those batteries for anything.  

I buy and stock both alkaline AA and lithium CR123 in such large quantities that I don't worry about it. I don't like having to find a store at midnight on a rainy night for a battery. I always have a couple of hundred alkaline AAs and a 50-100 CR123s laying around. Lithium AAs have just been one more thing I need to keep on hand for a rainy day but I draw the line at a dozen spares. I figure that's a several year supply.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 16:01
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I just got tired of the damn things (CR123s) running out as I was hiking to my hunting spot in the dark.  I have found my AA LED 60 lumen which lasts 8 hours vs the 70 lumen SF that lasts 1 hour to be a much better light for my needs.  Now with these AA lithium I am expecting even greater things.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 16:09
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I'd blame the light. I'm a flashlightaholic and must have a half dozen Fenix flashlights. I highly recommend them. I'm slowly adding in more AA powered but the size for the bang of the CR123 powered Fenix lights is amazing. The problem with CR123 is that if drained too fast they can explode. And I do mean EXPLODE hard enough too blow both ends off a flashlight. I buy only regulated lights and regulated CR123 batteries.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 19:07
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I have an Eotech 510 and I think the pixellation thing is way overblown.  Yes, it is noticeable if you have the reticle brightness intensity turned up, but if you set the intensity to where it is just bright enough for the light conditions and no more, the reticle appears much crisper.  At any rate, I haven't found it to be a detriment to aiming at all.  Actually, the center dot on an Eotech is smaller than most standard dot reflex sights, especially when you turn down the intensity.  Most dot sights have at least a 2 MOA dot and more often 4 MOA, whereas the center dot of an Eotech is 1 MOA, so I disagree that it is less suitable for long range shots; in most cases, the exact opposite is true.

To me, the advantage to the Eotech vs. a traditional red dot reflex sight is that it has a larger sight window that seems to obstruct your view less than the tubular reflex sights.  With both eyes open aiming, the reticle appears to be floating in space above the gun.  It also seems faster to me, mainly because I think it is more forgiving of eye position behind the sight, but also because the outer circle directs your eye toward the center, allowing the center dot to be smaller without losing it against the target.  Some will disagree and say a simple 4 MOA dot is quicker to acquire because it is larger and less busy.  To each his own.  The Aimpoints definitely have the edge in battery life.  In fact, the Aimpoints have as much as 10X greater battery life than the Eotech, so if you keep the reticle lit for long periods of time, an Aimpoint is probably a better choice.  On average, they are more compact than Eotechs as well, especially the micro Aimpoints, which are remarkably compact and unobtrusive.    They may also be more rugged than Eotech, but that is just speculation.  Both are very nice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2009 at 08:34
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Thanks Rifledude, Thats the kind of first hand analysis I was looking for.
Mark101
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2009 at 11:21
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As I said, different people observe it differently.

I hate LCD tv's because I see the "screen-door effect" and it bugs me.  DLP's are OK, but I see the rainbow effect in those - but not so much as the screen door in LCD's.

It all comes down to what you like, I like both, I like Aimpoint just a weeee bit more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 10:43
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I've used numerous Eotechs & Aimpoints over the years and IMHO Aimpoints get the nod for greater reliability & insane battery life. With that being said...
I much prefer the Eotech's reticle and wider perceived FOV through the optic. As was mentioned earlier I find the circle-dot reticle much faster when shooting from unconventional positions and since the rest of my kit runs on AA's the 512 & 517 simplify my battery logistics.
I recently replaced the 512's on my STG-556's w/517's for the side buttons but discovered that the 517's mounting bolt is both stronger and better designed than on the 512, well worth the few extra bucks in my book.
Regarding the "pixellated reticle", I find this is most apparent when looking directly at the reticle and/or when it's over-bright. When focusing on a target downrange this diminishes significantly and I don't even notice it.
Eotechs have had more reported problems than Aimpoints but I've yet to experience any problems w/any of my Eotechs (YMMV).
Tomac
STG's w/Eotech 517's:


Edited by Tomac - September/26/2009 at 10:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 11:34
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With that, I agree.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 12:20
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In the Eotech vs Aimpoint argument I used to be squarely in the Eotech camp, but recently migrated over to the Aimpoint side (largely due to battery life).

From a standpoint of sight picture, I really like Eotech's circle/dot arrangement.  It is very fast and quite precise.  As far as pixellation goes, it is most noticeable when the reticle is overly bright.  It also matters how and where the sight is housed.  If the sight is housed a little further forward, you simply do not see the pixellation as much.  I have seen some people with a tendency to get the sight as close to the eye as possible.  That makes pixellation stand out more.

Aside from battery life, one other thing I do not like on Eotech is the illumination control via buttons.  I just prefer to have a large knob that is easy to grab.

ILya
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