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elite4200 6x24???????????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2008 at 19:45
KY Hick View Drop Down
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I have a question on the 4200 6x24x50, since it does not have much adjustment and your bases can add some, what will the diff moa give me. I still want to shoot at 100yds and not bottom out. But want to shoot far also, i have plenty of land.
 
10moa base how many yds out can i go
15moa base
20moa base
 
I understand that a 20moa base might have a hard time getting to 100 yds, but if i go with a 10 how far can i go, or 15, etc...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2008 at 21:28
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1 in tube models have 26 moa of internal adjustment.  The 30mm tube version has 50 moa of internal adjustment.  Half of that will be above the point of zero and half below in theory.
One moa (minute of angle) is one inch at 100 yds.   Add a 20 moa base and you add 20 inches of additional adjustment to compensate for the drop of the trajectory of the bullet.
For example a 30-06 180 gr federal with Barnes MRX bullet has this trajectory.
  Long Range
Load No
Caliber
50 Y
100 Y
200 Y
300 Y
400 Y
500 Y
P3006AH
30-06 Spring. (7.62x63mm)
0.8
1.9
-8.1
-23.3
-46.1
 
How far you can adjust your scope to have the center crosshair correspond to the point of impact depends on how much internal adjustment you have and on the angle of the base or rings.  You can see that shooting out to about 300 yds you should be able to do with the one inch tube with no angle to the base and at least to 400 or 500 with the 30mm tube model  and past that you either need to compensate by adding plus moa to the base or you need to reconsider what scope you use.  Leupold 4.5-14x50 has 100 moa of internal adjustment as does the Nightforce 5.5-22x56. The 10x Super Sniper has about 120 moa of internal adjustment.  Another approach is Zeiss new Z1000 reticle which has marks starting above the center x.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2008 at 22:57
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Well I want the 30mm model. Your answer looks great and i appreciate all the info, but right now im looking for easy answers. I want to be able to zero in my rifle at 100 yds and get max distance (from the scope, not the round) how much moa in my base do i need to do this and how far will i get.
 
for example if i use a 10moa base how much distance can i go, 15moa how far can i go, and if i go with a 20moa base can i still zero at 100yds and if so how much distance.
 
I will figure out all the tech stuff later, i have never owned a scope before so i am looking for easy answers right now being that i am getting kinda overwhelmed with tech info right now just looking for a scope. I want to set this up as right as i can get it so i can teach myself with time.
 
just need some basic (does not have to be exact) info on about how far i can get out to (from the scope not the round).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2008 at 23:00
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Perhaps we should have an idea of about how far you are talking. this will help tremendously toward giving you the advise for which base, and the zero that will get you there and back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2008 at 09:44
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I am not looking for a certain distance.
 
I think the 20moa base will prolly not give me a comfy 100yd zero since the scope only has 50moa of adjustment, so lets not worry about the 20 (if i am wrong please tell me).
 
If i use a 15moa base do yall think i could get a comfy 100yd zero, and if so how far out can i adjust.
 
If i use a 10moa base can i get a comfy 100yd zero, and if so how far out can i adjust.
 
I am not going to compete with this rifle, just want to shoot for fun. But i would like to get as much distance out of the scopes adjustability and still have a good 100yd zero.
 
The rifle is a .308, and will be used to shoot for fun at targets, and to compete with my buddy to see whos buying the beer for the night. I will not be hunting with it, but if i happen to see a coyote pop up i might take a pop at him.
 
ONCE AGAIN i am not trying to shoot this thing at any certain distance, just want to know ABOUT how far i can get with my scopes adjustment from each base.
 
I am sorry if i sound rude, i am not trying to be. I am getting a little overwhelmed with info, and i am looking for some simple answers for some simple questions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2008 at 10:07
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Have you considered the leatherwood base, It is an adjustable base instead of a fixed MOA. The MOA vertical of the scope is not utilized.

Edited by 3_tens - October/04/2008 at 10:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2008 at 10:25
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WOW that thing is cool, but just a little more than what i want to spend. THANKS for the info.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2008 at 13:00
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Telling us the caliber of the rifle is critical to getting an accurate answer. To make the answer as simple as possible think of the 30 mm  as having 50 inches of adjustment at 100 yds. (same same as moa) Half of that adjustment should be above the middle point in the adjustment and half below-- in theory.  In reality when you mount a scope you usually have to either adjust up or down some -- right  -- so you just lost the middle point of that 50 inches and you no longer have 25 inches above and 25 inches below.  Now say we added a plus 20moa base then what you start with is the scope in theory having 45 inches up and 5 inches down which is Ok if you can get your 100 yd zero somewhere in that 5 inches but if you actually needed 7 inches you dont have that much adjustment.  Lets look at the plus 15 moa and that would give you 40 up and 10 down which is ok if you can get your 100 yd zero somewhere in that 10 inches but if you actually needed 12 inches you dont have that much adjustment.  Lets look at the plus 10moa and that would give you 35 inches up and 15 inches down.   But lets say just for the sake of argument that with a flat base and flat rings your actual zero was not really 25 up and 25 down center of the 50 inches but was in reality 10 inches above center or equal to leaving 15 inches of adjustment above and 35 inches below the point of actual zero - in that situation a +20mm base would be very helpful.  We cant give you an actual answer to this question because we do not know how the scope and the bore of the barrel align and it is different for each and every rifle.
 
Suggest you look at this: http://www.kentonindustries.com/
Also see this to determine how much drop your bullet has at what distance:
 
My suggestion is that if you really want to shoot a long way (past 600 yds) buy a scope with as much internal adjustment in it as possible and add the plus 20 moa base.
Note Leupold 30mm tube scopes in 6.5-20 and 8.5-25 have 70moa of internal adjustment but the 30mm tube scopes in 4.5-14 have 100 moa of internal adjustment. The Nightforce  5.5-22x56 also has 100 moa of internal adjustment. The Ior, S&B, U.S. Optics and a few others usually the tactical scopes have lots of adjustment and those are your thousand yard plus scopes.  Most guys dont have enough room to shoot past 200 to 300 yds so for out to 300 yds the Bushnell is plenty without changing to a plus moa base.  When you get past 300 you have to start making some decisions like setting your zero at 200 or 300 rather than setting the zero at 100. I think I could live with a plus 20moa base and 50 inches of adjustment and a 200 yd zero which I will estimate should have enough adjustment to get to 600 yds likely more.  (with a 2800ft per sec 180 gr 30 cal it would take about 36 inches of adjustment to go from a 200 yd zero to 1000 yds) .
 
Hope you can see why the answer is difficult cause we cant guess how the scope and bore line up and we dont know trajectory without knowing what bullet.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - October/04/2008 at 13:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2008 at 14:20
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It looks like i might want to consider buying a diff scope, i really like that one, but i think the lack of adjustment just isnt going to do what i want.
 
I dont want to (cant) spend more than the 4200 price range, so maybe i will look at what i was looking at before, a SS, or a brand i cant post here.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2008 at 20:51
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Scopes you should consider:
LEU56140 Leupold%204.5-14x40%20Mark%204%20LR/T%2030mm%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Duplex
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • Target Knobs
SWFA: $674.95
More%20Info...
604230 IOR%206x42%20Tactical%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 IOR 6x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • MP-8
  • 30mm
  • Free 2.5" Sun Shade w/ Purchase
SWFA: $644.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
104200 IOR%2010x42%20Tactical%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 IOR 10x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • MP-8
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Free 2.5" Sun Shade w/ Purchase
SWFA: $799.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
SS10X42 Super%20Sniper%2010x42%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Super Sniper 10x42 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
SWFA: $299.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
9237 Leupold 8.5-25x50 VX-III Long Range 57185, Matte finish, varmint hunters reticle, side focus, target knobs, like new condition $1,100.00 $829.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2008 at 22:53
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Thanks for all the info!!!!!!!!!!
 
I really want a mil-dot or mp8 reticle, want to learn all the good math stuff.
 
The 10x IOR and SS caught my eye awhile back but i kinda want a varabile.
 
 I see there are 2 nikon scopes in the sample list area, they are 4x16x50 monarch x scopes.
Dont know much about nikons, one is factory reconditioned, and the other is factory refurbished (whats the diff).
Do these carry any warranty and if so how much.
Also according to the scope rating scale here they are rated as good as the 4200's so would it be worth spending the extra $ for more adjustability if they have more than the 4200.
 
About getting to 1000yd line, I am not really wanting or know how to go that far, but if i get bored would not mind trying (even if i have to use hold over). I do understand that i will not have pinpoint accuracy. I doubt a 168grn .308 would have much stoping power @1000 so i would not be shooting at anything but a target from that range (for fun). If i wanted to get long distance (and my WIFE would let me spend the $$). I would get a .50 since i have enough private area to push it to its limits
 
It took me along time after the army to want to shoot again, now i do and just want to have some fun. I got my first gun at 5yrs old, a BB gun i still have. My granddaddy got me going with more stuff with age, i used to shoot alot when i was young. Hell the only freinds i had in the summer were a horse, dog, and a gun.
 
If you were wondering why i said a 168grn my rifle has a 1/10 twist, and from what info i can find is that seems to be the best bullet to use for that twist (sometimes a 175grn too). I ended up getting a savage 10FP HS Precision, not the best but seemed good for the money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2008 at 23:00
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Well forget the Nikon, just went to there website. It only has 50moa of adjustment just like the bushnell same dam boat again. UUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
this is getting frustrating!!!!!!!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2008 at 16:51
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LEU56140 Leupold%204.5-14x40%20Mark%204%20LR/T%2030mm%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Duplex
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • Target Knobs
SWFA: $674.95
whats wrong with this one it seems to be close to your price range has lots of internal adjustment and a good warranty. It does have covers over the target knobs but I have one in a 3-9x40 just like it and I use it on my savage 10FP .308 all the time. I did put kenton knobs on it though.  For what you are talking about you either decide to stop at this level because of price or you make the jump to something like this with 70moa of adjustment:
LEU60080 Leupold%206.5-20x50%20Mark%204%20LR/T%2030mm%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Leupold 6.5-20x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Tactical Milling Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
SWFA: $1,149.95
More%20Info...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2008 at 19:37
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I may have missed something in this thread, or I could be misunderstanding something, but 40+ MOA elevation with a 15 MOA base (or whatever base allows your 100yd zero) seems like plenty of vertical. I don't own a rifle that could use near that much adjustment at any reasonable, reachable range and I have a couple that are ballistically inferior to the "typical" 308.

I personally would find the base that will get me closest to 45 (probably not more) MOA elevation (read: "up" adjustment) at a 200yd zero and work from there.

Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, because if I am I'm gonna have to rethink this scope thing. Seriously, if I'm wrong, I want to know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2008 at 19:56
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Did I mention, these (426245T) are available on the "net" for around $500.

See GunBroker auction # 112424331


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2008 at 20:02
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If you went with a 10 or 15 MOA base you should be able to reach 800 yards no problem with a 168 SMK .308 round and still get your 100 yard zero.  You may be able to get a further, but to play it safe I would say around 800.  I would recommend the 10 and a 15 if you cannot find the 10. 

To TOG, that is 40 MOA total, meaning you will only actually be able to use half of that if everything works out to be centered, which actually never happens. 

In my opinion a good tactical scope for a .308 should have 70 or more of total elevation adjustment and then add a 20 MOA base.  That way you are easily covered for the 100 yard zero and be able to reach 1000 yards no problem with 168 and 175 grain bullets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2008 at 22:45
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S-tool,
I thought it was 50 MOA, total. So, why can't the scope be zeroed so there 10 MOA of "down" adjustment remaining, leaving 40 MOA of "up" adjustment.

Actually zeroing @ 100 yds doesn't make much sense if long range shooting is the goal. One would need to apply something like  48 clicks (approx 36" drop, 1/8MOA per click) of elevation at 600yds. of course, depending on the ammo. That figure would be with Federal Gold Medal Match with 168gr Match Kings (308 ballistics).

Tell me if my math is not correct....................... really.
 
The 100yd zero thing seems a bit cumbersome.





Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2008 at 22:50
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OK, I think I get it. We're talking about adjusting using the mil-dots and not reticle adjustment.

Correct????.........Incorrect????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/08/2008 at 14:56
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The limiting factor of the scopes internal wall and the erector is where you run into a problem. If there is a windage adjustment that causes the erector to sit more to one side than the other then at that point you won't be able to use all of the up or down that would be available otherwise. This is the problem with using scopes that have less than optimal adjustment ranges.
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Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

The limiting factor of the scopes internal wall and the erector is where you run into a problem. If there is a windage adjustment that causes the erector to sit more to one side than the other then at that point you won't be able to use all of the up or down that would be available otherwise. This is the problem with using scopes that have less than optimal adjustment ranges.


Exactly.
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Gotcha!!!.............................Thanks
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I have this scope and went with a 15 moa base.  I am zeroed at 100m with about 2 moa down remaining and I have like 46 moa up to reach out there and touch something.  I forget what that gets me; but essentially I can be 46" high at 100m so what ever that comes up to.  shooting my .308

Hope that helped PM me if you have any questions
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