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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2008 at 08:58
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Hi guys,
 
I just bought a 4200  6x24 50mm mildot which is my first tactical.
my first question is...is it normal to lose sharpness/clarity with this scope(or this type of scope) when increasing magnification.
If the target is stationary then no parallax adjustment is needed as i increase. If i start at 8x on a 100 yd target and then increase power the edges of the bullseye become fuzzy(it's not as good as my monarch UCCs to start with)....worse at longer distances.
 
at 350+ yds i really can't get real good sharpness on ANY parallax setting.When i say good sharpness i'm still looking for the clear edge of a bullseye... plus everything in between is fuzzyER...
With a monarch i can have the A/O on 150 and still have a clearer picture of a 300 yd target.
 
Do i need to send this scope back?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2008 at 09:29
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That doesn't sound right to me. I say it's either a counterfeit or a defective scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2008 at 12:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2008 at 14:35
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It is possible you have a defective scope.

Still, can you describe the whole procedure of how you adjusted the scope for your eyes?

Thanks.
ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2008 at 07:49
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I use the parallax adjustment for target focus,keeping it close to the mark(target distance) and i adjusted the reticle to get max clarity of the crosshairs and mildots and left it there.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2008 at 13:21
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That's not exactly how to do it.

If you look at a target AND the reticule, the muscles in your eyes will adjust focus - and if you look away (your eyes will refocus) and look back, it will be fuzzy again; it ain't the scope, it's the process.

To focus the reticule, DO NOT touch the parallex.  Look at a clear sky (no clouds, nothing but endless blue.)  Look at the reticule, look away while making a small adjustment, look at the reticule again.  Do this (look at, look away while adjusting, look at again) till the reticule is perfectly focused with no target.

Once the reticule is focused, don't touch the focus ring again (unless your prescription changes.)

Now, when you look at a target; whether the target is focused or not, the reticule should be crystal clear.  Use the parallax adjustment to gain a parallax -free image of the clear target.

Be advised: at 24X, the image will not be pristine and sharp and clear and wonderful.  At 24X, your exit pupil is just over 2 and that ain't ideal for any scenario. At lower power, it should be a good image, plenty of light, sharp edges to target and reticule.

I had the same scope, it is a good scope for the money.  If you decide to take another route, send the scope and the receipt back to Bushnell for a full refund (mine took about 4 weeks, if I recall correctly.)

It sounds like your problem is not a scope malfunction, just an adjustment issue.

Good luck.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - August/22/2008 at 13:23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2008 at 14:38
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Good writeup, RC.  One slight modification though: before adjusting the eyepiece for the sharpest possible reticle (by the way that is best done when looking at the sky), set your side-focus/parallax knob to infinity.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2008 at 13:58
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Yea, dammit, forgot to mention that.  This why you are the resident optics pro and I am simply the "turd-in-the-punchbowl" thrower.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2008 at 14:11
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Thanks, I suppose and do not belittle yourself.  Except for the who IOR thing Evil%20Bat, you certainly know what you are talking about.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 08:36
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Thanks guys,i'll try that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 16:31
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

  Except for the who IOR thing Evil%20Bat, you certainly know what you are talking about.

ILya
  Either my reading skills are slipping or you did say what you thought you said.

"I do not think that word means what you think it means."


I like IOR, I owned an IOR, the SH 3-18 illuminated FFP.  I got rid of the scope for 2 reasons:

1. Due to the larger elevation turret and the necessary center joint's size, the back segment was too short to give adequate eye relief when mounted on my LA 300WM.  I talked with Val and he said both rings could be mounted to the front tube segment without voiding the warranty; however, I didn't want to risk the torquing forces becoming evident at the wrong time.
2.  Of the build lot that I purchased, IOR discovered an inferior metal component that was prone to unforeseen and catastrophic failure (rendering the optic useless.)  As these initial scopes were sold mostly to LE and military snipers, I find it unconscionable that they would not recall the scopes, inspect all, and make the necessary repairs on the ones in need.  Not only did they not recall them, they said only after it failed would they address the issue.  I have a severe problem with that.

Having said all that, I bought another IOR, the 4X hunter, and like it very much.

As a Marine, knowing what enlisted men make while serving in combat - and how completely they rely upon their gear; I find it utterly unacceptable that men in harm's way who bought this optic with the promises of a serviceable and reliable piece of gear were rewarded with a statement that the optic (which cost more than many make in a month) had a 10% failure rate of the initial 80 made, and that IOR would do nothing to help till AFTER the optic failed.

I know, I know: everyone makes a lemon; but IOR made several, and waited for something to go really bad before they'd make it right.

I am certain that was more than you were hoping for, but reviewing optics is an issue of personal experience, and that was my experience. 

And thanx for the complement, I will cherish it forever!




Edited by Rancid Coolaid - August/25/2008 at 16:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 16:48
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Gosh, once a decade or so I make a joke and this time around it ends up being totally wasted.... 

I feel so misunderstood Boo%20Hoo%20This

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 17:27
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Gosh, once a decade or so I make a joke and this time around it ends up being totally wasted.... 

I feel so misunderstood Boo%20Hoo%20This

ILya


Damn, that was a joke?  I gotta party with you, man!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 17:46
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Yes it was, I even put the "bat out of hell" emoticon in to enunciate that fact.

If you recall, I was the one who recommended the IOR hunting scope to you, and I was also around during your IOR FFP scope experience. 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 20:56
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Yea, I know; but from time to time people get hit on the head with bricks and forget things.  I wanted to be certain that, if you had recently experienced a head injury, that information would again be available to you.


You're welcome.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2008 at 08:57
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 I wonder if it worked or he got things straightened out ? Wish they'd reply back .
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 09:32
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I guess it's the way the scope is made.The clarity is no better than my nikon UCCs and with them, even if i left the AO on 100,i have a clear picture at other distances.It just makes you worry about parallax.The 4200 will focus for the set distance but not so good at other distances.Still, i expected better glass for a scope that costs $150 more than the others.We have very small deer in n. fla and i'm wondering if i'll even be able to see antlers at long distances when you consider background having a camo affect etc.I was trying to get a good look at a small buck in velvet this weekend,standing in a road,at about 400yds,and could only make out the horns if he stood at a certain angle.I've got a 15 yr old leupold 3.5x10 that i think i'll compare with the others just for the hell of it.I might be surprised. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 09:46
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If you really want to be able to crank a scope up to high powers and have good clear images, I think you are going to need to spend a lot more money than a 4200.  Check out a Zeiss Conquest, an IOR, a Swarovski, a Meopta Meostar, a Kahles.  Any of those will be a very good upgrade in glass quality which will allow you to use them at higher powers and see better.  Even on my $1300 IOR once I get above about 12x image quality starts to go down.  The only way to over come that is better glass with more exit pupil.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 11:12
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

If you really want to be able to crank a scope up to high powers and have good clear images, I think you are going to need to spend a lot more money than a 4200.  Check out a Zeiss Conquest, an IOR, a Swarovski, a Meopta Meostar, a Kahles.  Any of those will be a very good upgrade in glass quality which will allow you to use them at higher powers and see better.  Even on my $1300 IOR once I get above about 12x image quality starts to go down.  The only way to over come that is better glass with more exit pupil.
 
Yeah,it looks that way.....i'm not going to do that because this rifle will stay in the truck and take the bumps etc... plus i'm not going to spend that much money on a scope that  i've never looked thru.A scope in a store thats not mounted on a stock or something is not easy to check out.Just holding it in your hands and looking thru it,making adjustments,focusing on something etc. doesnt work for me.Every store needs to have an old stock rigged to hold a scope so a customer can check it out right.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 12:10
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I frequently warn people about scopes with too high magnification - it is usually far less useful than most people think.
In truth, the route to take is to get a good pair of binoculars or a good spotting scope.  Since the scope is mounted and zeroed, I don't recommend you ship it off and get another something else.  It was my experience with that scope that, at lower magnifications, things were fine.

If you do decide to get something else - and I know this is gonna sound crazy - consider better glass and lower magnification.  Antlers at 400 yards will probably be clearer and easier to see at 12X with a good Swaro than they will be at 24X with a 4200.

I shoot out to 600 yards regularly and 1,000 infrequently and own no scope with magnification higher than 17X.  More magnification is almost never a real need.

A good pair of 10X binos will serve you very well. (Again, I know, it is counter-intuitive to think binos at 10X will do what a 24X scope cannot.)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 17:48
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 Why did you change from the NIKON ?????  You had the best ..... tried the rest ..... now look what happened . Rancid .... the high magnification depends on the scope .... some suck .... NIKONS did it right . I can crank my Nikon Monarch 6.5-20 x 44 to the max and " CRYSTAL CLEAR "  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 17:55
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Originally posted by Dunno Dunno wrote:

I guess it's the way the scope is made.The clarity is no better than my nikon UCCs and with them, even if i left the AO on 100,i have a clear picture at other distances.It just makes you worry about parallax.The 4200 will focus for the set distance but not so good at other distances.Still, i expected better glass for a scope that costs $150 more than the others.We have very small deer in n. fla and i'm wondering if i'll even be able to see antlers at long distances when you consider background having a camo affect etc.I was trying to get a good look at a small buck in velvet this weekend,standing in a road,at about 400yds,and could only make out the horns if he stood at a certain angle.I've got a 15 yr old leupold 3.5x10 that i think i'll compare with the others just for the hell of it.I might be surprised. 
Some scopes by design are going to be more sensitive focus wise as far as using the parralax. Fact is that is why most people won't use a parralax adjustable scope for this application. Get a parralax free scope for this, and there won't be any problems clarity wise. Also there are other things that quality glass will give besides just image quality. There are flare issues, haloing etc. that good glass helps to eliminate. Bare in mind also that coatings cost a fair amount in the glass equation as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 18:03
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Couple of comments:

--I do not thing there is such a beast as a parallax-free scope.  Not that I've seen, at least.  Did you mean a scope without parallax adjustment?

--Elite 4200 6-24x50, in my experience, is a very nice scope and is better than the Monarch UCC.  If you are not happy with the clarity of yours, send it back to Bushnell.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 18:09
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You are correct Ilya. The term parralax free is a misnomer. They are actually set at a given distance, like say 100 yards in most cases. I agree that the Elite series are very good scopes and if there is a reason that someone isn't satisfied with theirs then the scope is defective or a counterfeit.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2008 at 23:57
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Originally posted by mercenary1947 mercenary1947 wrote:

 Why did you change from the NIKON ?????  You had the best ..... tried the rest ..... now look what happened . Rancid .... the high magnification depends on the scope .... some suck .... NIKONS did it right . I can crank my Nikon Monarch 6.5-20 x 44 to the max and " CRYSTAL CLEAR "  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
Maybe you got a good Monarch. I HATED mine. Same power range as yours -- bought it in early 2006 shortly before my 6.5-20x50 Conquest. Looked through it for a day, packed it back up, put it in my safe for 2 yrs and recently sold it. The image was very bright but clarity was seriously lacking. Compared to my Conquest, the Nikon was a joke.
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