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Dual duty scope help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 06:45
benjamin199 View Drop Down
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I have also posted this on long range hunting, but figured I may get more advice here.
 
I would like some advice in choosing a scope that will serve dual duty for me.
1. The scope will be used on my prone rifle for NRA mid and long range matches during any/any events, this means prone sling supported from 300-1000 yards, this rifle has a 20 moa base installed.
2. I will be using this as a hunting scope on my long range rifle which is a HS Precision PH in 300WSM, this does not have a 20moa base, but I will probably put one on to make the swap between rifles a little easier.
I have made a list of the features I am looking for in this scope.
1. The low end of magnification should be no more than 4x , I would like the high end around 15x
2. I would like parallax adjustment, either turret style or AO will work.
3. I would prefer an objective diameter or 50mm or less.
4. I would like at least 50moa of elevation adjustment preferably closer to 60moa.
5. I would like a simple plex or German #4 style reticle in the 2nd plane.
6. I would like the elevation turret readily accessible for changes. (target or tactical style)
7. I would like very good glass and a solid scope with a good warranty.
8. I would like to minimize the size and weight as much as possible.

I realize everything with scopes is a compromise, and I will probably not meet every requirement above.
I have been looking and found the following scopes.
1. Zeiss diavari 4-16x50 T FL, 13.25”, 25oz, 59.4moa elevation, this scope seems to be very close to what I am looking for but is fairly new so I haven’t found any reviews on it.
2. Swarovski Z6 3-18x50 15.12”, 22.4oz, 64moa elev., this scope is a little longer than the Zeiss but it is also lighter, I am worried the extra precision to extend the magnification range may make this a little less robust than I would prefer, but it seems to have a good warranty.
3. Schmidt and Bender 4-16X50 PMII, 15.5”, 32oz, 56moa elevation, the main problem with this scope is the FFP reticle, while this scope is very rugged it is also big and heavy especially for a hunting rifle.
4. Nightforce 3.5-15x50, 14.7”, 30oz, 110moa, again this is on the big and heavy side for a hunting scope, and the glass may be a step down from the rest, but this scope costs a lot less also.
If anyone has any personal experience with the above scopes and can offer some good advice I would greatly appreciate it, or if there is a scope I am missing that I should take a look at please let me know.
Thanks for your time,
Ben
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 07:18
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
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A wise man once said -"no matter what the question, the answer is Hensoldt" - R.C.
 
I dont' have a lot of expertiese in this field so I will leave the major recommendations to the more knowledgeable players...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 08:14
8shots View Drop Down
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No doubt you have looked at the Leupold Mk4 range?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 13:23
Jon A View Drop Down
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How do you intend to compensate for wind with no windage turret or graduated reticle?  You can hold off using the target for reference for some competitions but it sounds like you'll be at different ranges, shooting at different targets, etc which makes that difficult IMHO.  Maybe you already have enough experience in these comps to know you can do that well, I'm just curious and want to make sure you've thought about it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 15:32
RifleDude View Drop Down
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Though I have the same question about wind compensation as Jon, among the scopes you listed, I would definitely get the Zeiss 4-16X50 FL.  Yes it is a new scope, but it really isn't "new" from the standpoint that it is a variation of proven design technologies Zeiss has been using in scopes for a long time.  I saw this scope at SHOT, and I like everything about it, except that I wish it was available with a mil type reticle.  I like the fact the exposed knobs featured a nicely designed retracting sleeve that locked the knobs to safeguard against accidental movement.  You pull up on the sleeve to unlock and turn the knobs, then they pop back into locked position when you release. Optically, these scopes are superb, as you would expect.  They appeared to be very similar to their Hensoldt line, with the addition of Lotutec coatings and different reticles.  With a 20 MOA base, you should have enough elevation adjustment, but if you think you need more, the NF 3.5-15X50 definitely has plenty, and it's a proven scope, but its optics and illumination system are both decidedly inferior to the Zeiss.


Edited by RifleDude - March/15/2010 at 15:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 18:18
benjamin199 View Drop Down
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Thanks for the replies.
When I am shooting in matches I take off my turret covers,   I usually try to figure out the prevailing condition and set my windage for a center x, then hold off for subtle changes, if there is a large change I will hold fire unless time is getting short, then I may have to adjust windage, but in a match that is no big deal.  These are NRA highpower prone matches from known distances with sighters adjustments are no problem at all.  I work my scope windage pretty much the same when shooting Fclass ( I use a NF 12-42 on my F-class rifle.)
 
I am liking the Zeiss the best also, I talked with there customer service today they are expecting there first shipment of them in a month or two.  I can wait.
 
I am currently using a swarovski AV 6-18x50 AO with standard turrets with my prone gun (I used this scope 2 years ago on my F-class rifle for mid-range events), but my 100 yards zero is right at the point where I bottom out my adjustment with a 20moa base.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 09:42
benjamin199 View Drop Down
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The March 2.5-25x42 looks like it should be a good fit also, does anyone have some experience with these?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 11:50
RifleDude View Drop Down
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I've only seen the March scopes at the SHOT show, so I can only comment on what I saw.  I really liked the 2.5-25X and 1-10X scopes!  Optically, they looked absolutely superb to me!  They have an unprecedented 10X zoom range, which makes them unique.  Amazingly, they didn't exhibit the tunnel effect on low power that some high zoom ratio scopes have, and the optics looked to be pretty free of distortions at all magnifications.  I liked their knobs, their reticles, and their illumination system.  They looked to be well-made scopes.

The downside to March scopes are:
1.  They are made in very low volume, so you may have to wait awhile to get one.
2.  They only have a 5 year warranty, or at least that's what it was when I talked to the Kelbly's (their distributor) rep at SHOT.
3.  They are very expensive, though so is the Zeiss and S&B you're considering.


Edited by RifleDude - March/17/2010 at 11:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 12:01
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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The 5-year warranty is a deal-breaker for me.

For pure glass quality, I have yet to see a scope that matches my Hensoldt.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 12:13
RifleDude View Drop Down
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I would normally agree that Hensoldt should be considered when looking at long range scopes of this class, however Benjamin specified he wanted a 2nd focal plane plex type reticle.  I may be mistaken, but I don't believe Hensoldt offers anything but mil reticles.  The Zeiss FL appeared to be identical to Hensoldt optically and mechanically, though with different knobs, Lotutec coatings, and different reticles.

From what I saw, the March scopes appeared to have very Hensoldt - like glass, but the 5 year warranty would be a deal breaker for me, unless I just wanted a high magnification scope for Benchrest, where March dominates.


Edited by RifleDude - March/17/2010 at 12:21
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