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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 13:24
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As I contemplate writing this, I feel I need to put up a shield for all the rotten fruit and vegetables and a wall for any stray rounds...
 
I have an NcStar 10-40x50 (duck)... I have swapped it around between several rifles, just for grins.  It has always performed pretty well, no complaints except at high mag at long range, a little "fuzzy"/cloudy/blurry...not too bad, actually, but certainly not like a "good" scope (bob and weave).  I mounted it last night on a 30-06 (where it has been before) and in boresighting noticed something I don't remember ever having seen.  Adjusting the focus, the reticle seemed to wander around, kind of like a lazy eyeball (Madeye Moody from Harry Potter is what came to mind).  Has anyone seen anything like this before? 
Good thing it's cheap.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 15:34
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

 ......................Good thing it's cheap.
 
No actually money wasted on somthing that eventually fails is still money wasted.  It's kind of like buying cheap reloaded ammo having it blow up the gun and then saying well at least the ammo was cheap.  It's kind of like buying cheap paint going through all the work to paint your  house and having the paint peel off two years later and then saying well at least the paint was cheap. It's like buying a $500. car then finding out you need a new motor and transmission, well at least it was cheap.
 
The moral of the story is - you get what you pay for, sometimes less but never more.
And in the case of a rifle scope that you hunt with if it cost you the trophy deer of a lifetime or the deer you really needed to put meat on the table cause your out of work, or the scope fails when you encounter dangerous game.  Sometimes the cost of going third class is more than you can afford. 
 
Some people have to learn things for them self. There are some scopes that work well and are reasonably priced.  Sightron S1 3-9x40,  Weaver K4 & K6,  Super Sniper 10x.
Do yourself a favor  -  consider what other people here recommend, you still make up your own mind what you want but if you get something that lasts a lifetime and satisfies your need that is better than spending money having something fall apart then having to replace it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 15:52
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Advice well spoken... to be sure. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 16:09
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I put a NcStar on a .454 casull once.  Bucky  It lasted for like 3 rounds and the eye piece popped off, it was pretty funny.  But at least it was cheap,  Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing
Even good scopes break.   One of my IOR's had problems, my meopta, 2 bushnells, so are they wasted money?  Not if they served their purpose and the company stands behind them. 

They gave me a full refund, even after I told them what gun I put it on.  I would call them, maybe they will replace it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 16:24
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:


 ......................Good thing it's cheap.

 

No actually money wasted on somthing that eventually fails is still money wasted.  It's kind of like buying cheap reloaded ammo having it blow up the gun and then saying well at least the ammo was cheap.  It's kind of like buying cheap paint going through all the work to paint your  house and having the paint peel off two years later and then saying well at least the paint was cheap. It's like buying a $500. car then finding out you need a new motor and transmission, well at least it was cheap.

 

The moral of the story is - you get what you pay for, sometimes less but never more.

And in the case of a rifle scope that you hunt with if it cost you the trophy deer of a lifetime or the deer you really needed to put meat on the table cause your out of work, or the scope fails when you encounter dangerous game.  Sometimes the cost of going third class is more than you can afford. 

 

Some people have to learn things for them self. There are some scopes that work well and are reasonably priced.  Sightron S1 3-9x40,  Weaver K4 & K6,  Super Sniper 10x.

Do yourself a favor  -  consider what other people here recommend, you still make up your own mind what you want but if you get something that lasts a lifetime and satisfies your need that is better than spending money having something fall apart then having to replace it.

1) I don't know that there is anything wrong with it yet, just asked if anyone had ever seen or heard of such a thing before. I personally have not, but the scope worked fine the last time I used it. Oddest thing I have ever seen in a scope, actually. There are several things I can think of that may be the cause, some "fatal", some not. Just was asking for some input.
2) I DID shoot a hog with it on a rifle last year, but was as reasonably certain that it would work as one can be certain of anything. I have purposely not hunted with it, because it was cheap. That was a one time thing, never really intended to, situation just presented itself. I would NEVER take that scope on a hunt or use it where it was a "have to" situation. I have a couple of fallbacks.
3) It was a trial for me...I don't have enough posts to get a "free trial" here, no one I know will let me just mount a scope and shoot with it to see how it performs, that is not the kind of optics I "experiment" with in my profession.   I bought it because I wanted to check it out something that there was so much conflicting information about... and it was cheap enough that was OK for me to do that. It may turn out to be money wasted, but there are many things in life that are wasted money that have not been as much fun as getting the reactions from this and have not been as good as the thing has been/was up until last night???
4) I am going to shoot it in tomorrow, will definitely let you know how it turns out. And for the record, I have had Leupold fail and Weaver fail (long time ago, though). Leupold was a bad experience all around and to me, they are too expensive for the quality. Not saying they are bad, just not a choice I will make again.
5) I was just asking.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 16:32
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:


   I put a NcStar on a .454 casull once.  Bucky  It lasted for like 3 rounds and the eye piece popped off, it was pretty funny.  But at least it was cheap,  Roll%20on%20Floor%20LaughingEven good scopes break.   One of my IOR's had problems, my meopta, 2 bushnells, so are they wasted money?  Not if they served their purpose and the company stands behind them.  They gave me a full refund, even after I told them what gun I put it on.  I would call them, maybe they will replace it.

I've thought about putting it on my .458 Lott, but have just not had time. Lott is going hog hunting next weekend and I have both a new front sight and a recently mounted scope on it to shoot in tomorrow. Appreciate the info very much. I will phone them. As a matter of fact, I remember calling NcStar right before I got it and they DID say if anything went wrong with it, send it back. Actually, if there is something wrong, and the weird reticle manipulation is not just a "feature", I am pretty sure I don't want another. Thank you, again, for the information.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 17:30
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All scope's reticles will appear to move around when using a boresighter because of the extreme close range the boresighter is in relation to the image focal plane the reticle plane.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 17:44
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I have noticed some of them move around just before the glass falls out too.  (Barska of course)  I never thought of puting a scope on my 454 Ruger Alaskan but that would be a test to see which gives up first the scope or my wrist.
 
Duce Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 18:07
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Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

All scope's reticles will appear to move around when using a boresighter because of the extreme close range the boresighter is in relation to the image focal plane the reticle plane.

Chris, how stupid of me...most obvious of all solutions. It did not occur with the NIKON, however...just tried it again to make sure. No "Mad Eye Moody" effect there, perhaps a barely perceptible flutter, not enough to be sure if I was imagining it or not. Requires more experimentation on my part.   Thank you.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2008 at 10:59
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 LOVE THEM NIKONS !!!!  Again thanks millions Chris for that super deal on a scope I'm going to mourn for years after she passes on .... LOL  Wish you'd have made me buy both models with the different mags and objectives .... still kickin my own butt ....  the more I use it the more I love it .... and it does'nt nag ... want anything but a lil care ... and is always there when I need it .... ahhhhh sweet .... if it could only make love ..... hahahaha
Merc ---->  Nut%20Kicker < -----  Merc 


Edited by mercenary1947 - May/31/2008 at 11:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2008 at 12:24
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When dealing with parallax you need to keep in mind that the error or movement is increased with magnification so a 3-9x40 will not appear to be moving as much as a 10-40x50 would.
 
Here is an excerpt from an article I am working on for LongRangeHunting.com's news letter.  This should better help you understand what is going on with your scope.
 

..............I’ve found over the years that most people do not know what parallax is and those that do, have a very hard time explaining it to others.  I’ve found two examples that are very helpful in understanding parallax.

 

Example 1

You know when you are sitting in the passenger seat of a vehicle it’s hard to look at the speedometer and tell how fast you are going because your eye....the needle....and the mph number are not all three lined up.  So to you it looks like your going 35 when really you are going 55.  But the person behind the steering wheel has his eye, the needle and the mph all lined up straight in the same plane and gets a true reading.  This is not exactly the same but it really helps to get your mind thinking in the right direction. 

 

Example 2

With one eye closed hold your thumb out in front of your open eye and put your thumb on top of a distant object.  Now close the eye you are looking through and open the other eye while you hold your thumb steady on target.  Your target is now visible and your thumb will have shifted to the left or right.  The target did not move nor did your thumb but somehow they are not on top of each other any longer because the observation point changed.  This is not exactly the same as parallax in a scope either but again it helps set the stage.

 

A More Technical Look

If you do not have the image of the target and the reticle in the same plane you will have parallax.  You can tell if they are not in the same plane by moving your eye up, down or side to side.  If parallax is present the reticle will appear to move off the target.  A scope has several image planes and several focal planes and these vary depending on fixed vs. zoom and first focal plane scopes vs. second focal plane.  For parallax you really only need to think of the scope as having two planes, one is where the image is formed and the second is where the reticle is focused.  A target 1000 yards away will come to focus at a very specific distance behind the objective lens.  A target at 100 yards will come to focus at a different location in the scope’s tube further from the objective than the 1000 yard image.  The parallax adjustment on a scope simply moves the reticle’s plane to be in the same location as the image plane.  We are talking about very minute distances, like .1mm, which does not sound like much but it is compounded by magnification.  Each power of the scope will multiply any error in parallax.  So let’s say you have adjusted the parallax the best you can and you missed aligning the image plane and reticle plane by .1mm, the .1mm misalignment would change as you change the power.  For simplicity sake let’s pretend we have a 1-20x scope (wouldn’t that be nice!).  We have it initially set on 1x and we adjust the parallax as close as we can but we missed aligning the image plane and reticle plane by .1mm, now we turn the magnification up to 20x and we have compounded the error x20.  The misalignment now is a full 2mm off.  And inside a scope dealing with planes, 2mm is a lot.

 

Generally speaking parallax should not be a major concern for the average deer hunter and if your scope happens to have an adjustment for parallax and you don’t have a need for it, you can set it at 100 and mostly ignore it.  Keep in mind that the yardage markings on the parallax adjustment are not exact and are just meant to get you in the ball park, fine tuning will need to be done to further eliminate parallax.

 

Parallax correction is a must for anyone attempting to use either a high magnification scope, anyone attempting to shoot drastically different yardages with the same scope or anyone attempting to shoot at extremely close ranges or extremely long ranges.

 

Common mistakes are to use the parallax adjustment in an attempt to focus the reticle.  The ocular end (eye piece)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2008 at 18:40
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I am cooking dinner so this has to be short, Chris, appreciate the info>>>will read when I have time to digest. Quick glance looks VERY interesting, but needs some "absorption" time. Not light reading.
Went to the Range... everything went very well with the .458 and the .220, both are real performers. Still shooting under 1MOA at 100 yds with the LOTT, the Pentax scope appears to be holding up (pumped 20 rounds through it today, still hitting under an inch at the end, biggest group with the Etronx was.5in 5shots, smallest .25 3shots.
The 30-06 with NcStar: 1st 3 shots at 25 yds, ~.5in off dead center to the right, all bullet holes touching in about a triangle shape. Moved to 100yds, dead center aim, DID NOT HIT THE target. I spent about an hour and a half adjusting, shooting, adjusting, shooting, then tried adjusting the focus and the reticle pulled the "Mad Eye Moody" effect, again. So I looked at where my last group went (on another target I had set up about 8in to the left of the one I was shooting at), and carefully moved the focus knob until it brought the reticle to my POA on the right hand target... I then proceeded to crank 30 more rounds through the -06 NcStar combo, with about 1MOA accuracy. Got my wife to shoot it and her first shot was DEAD CENTER bullseye, next two about .75in high, dead center. This is NOT a feature I like. I stated in an earlier post, much earlier, that I would not recommend the NcStar for anyone else...after today that holds even more true. I can fiddle and MAKE it work, but who wants that much pain? Once I found the "key" it was great. The mirage was pretty heavy today, and at 40x 200yds, I was not unhappy with the NcStar's performance. Once again, this is not a scope for the casual shooter. Did not go to the 300yd range today.
Even though I said NEVER take it hunting, I am going to take the -06/NcStar to Texas next weekend. Not sure I will screw up the nerve to shoot at a hog with it, but my friend will be standing nearby with his 7mmMag, so he can "cover" me. I wonder if NcStar will be willing to fix this???? More to come on this issue. I hope anyone who reads takes head and thinks, once, twice, three times before making an NcStar purchase.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2008 at 14:33
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I am familiar with the concepts described and understand reticle focus vs parallax adjustment.  I have not previously seen the effect I described, nor experienced the after effects of the reticle "movement".  I will describe the results of a test I ran on 6 different scopes in a later post. 
Once again, I do appreciate the information.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2008 at 17:48
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   Whacko ..... Get%20Your%20Popcorn%20Ready ...... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 05:15
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Tried to post last night and my IP's server went down.
Two iterations, now, seven different scopes, 3-9, 4-12 (x2), 6-18, 6-20 (x2) and a 4x fixed as a reference vs the NcStar. Varied, random parallax adjustments (on those adjustable), varied focus at all stages. NONE exhibited the "Mad Eye Moody" effect at any power/parallax adjustment/focus except the NcStar. This is a function of this scope, quite possibly only this scope. I varied power on the NcStar from 10-40, and while less pronounced at 10x, it is still there. Direct relationship to movement of the focus ring and reticle movement, gyration is a better term. I have never seen a reticle move like this before, especially tied to the focus ring. Truthfully, had never noticed it in this scope. It is... a puzzlement. I intend to contact NcStar and see what they will do.
It did perform well at the range, Saturday, once I figured it out. When I left, the zero at 100 and 200yds was holding. Did not shoot it Sunday or yesterday.
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