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Does this sound like a bad scope?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2011 at 08:24
slowr1der View Drop Down
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I got out to shoot my muzzle loader some today before our season starts and I'm wondering if I now have a scope that's given up the ghost. Let me start off by saying it's a cheap $30 Tasco Bucksight from Walmart and I'd not buy a cheap scope like that now, but at the time I didn't know better, and I've had it for 5 years or so and it's never given me a reason to doubt it or change it. It's also got a lot of memories to go along with it mounted atop my muzzle loader, so I really am hesitant to just change it. Everything else I hunt with has much more expensive optics now.

Anyway, this past season I removed the scope from the gun and then reinstalled it. When I went to zero it, I didn't have the greatest bench to shoot off of, but it was good enough. I shot 5 shots, and 2 of them were about 2" right, and 3 of them in the bullseye. I figured I must have pulled the 2 that went to the right, and that it was close enough. I went hunting, and the bullet impacted exactly where I wanted it to with the deer I shot. I thought all ways fine. At the end of the season I took the gun apart and cleaned it well, including taking it out of the stock, etc. The gun had also ridden in the truck some during the season and while I didn't drop it, I'm sure it did feel some bumps in there.

Fast forward a month or two and I got it out just to shoot. When I shot it, all of the shots impacted to the right about 2". I thought this seemed odd, but then I thought maybe that I just didn't have it sighted in well and the 3 in the bullseye had been what I'd pulled, or maybe where I'd taken it out of the stock, it just was too many variables to rule it as a scope failure. I didn't end up getting out to sight it back in until July. So in July I got out and shot it to sight it in.

This is what I got. The two to the right were the first two, then I moved it too far left, and then I moved it again and shot those 3 dead center. I was happy with it, and even tried banging the scope around some by banging on it, etc. It held up all day and shot where I wanted.

I took it home, cleaned it without taking it out of the stock, and put it away.

So fast forward to 2.5 months later and I get it out today to go shoot it. I go to the range instead of shooting on our property, so once again I don't have the best rest, but it works well enough to get by. So I take the first shot shooting at the small target in the corner. I miss the paper completely, but then I shot a couple more. What I now notice is once again it's shoot 2" to the right.
Ignore all the other bullet holes, but you can see the two to the right. One is right over 1" right, and one about 2". Also ignore the group size as it's due to me not having a great rest.


The only factors that changed were I was shooting slightly downhill when I zeroed it, and now at this range you have to shoot uphill. Could that effect it shooting to the right? I know my other guns shot about 1" low here from when they were sighted in on our property where we shoot downhill, but the other one wasn't off windage wise.

Anyway, I made some adjustments and got it centered again, and it will shoot dead center all day long. It shots a tight group like normal, it shoots the same spot if you bang on it somewhat, and it just seems to work exactly like it should when at the range. I'm just wondering where it's going to shoot 2 months from now.

Has anyone else had anything like this happen? Does it sound like a bad scope? The scopes I've had go bad in the past have always shot all over the place. It just seems really odd to me that it would shoot great all day and not move from recoil, getting bumped, or anything like that, but that it would lose zero in the house. Should I suspect this scope, or could it have been shooting uphill, or some other factor? Have any of you all had a scope do go bad and do this, or do they normally just start shooting all over the place and moving with each shot?

Like I said, I've just got a lot of great memories with this combo and I hate to change it, when something may not even be bad. Otherwise if it wasn't a situation like this I'd change the scope for piece of mind.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 04:59
lkscoperepair View Drop Down
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Hi Slow rider, are you shooting ball or bullet? do you clean your barrel afrer every 2-3  shots? what rifle are you shooting?
Larry
L & K Scope Repair
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 10:53
slowr1der View Drop Down
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Originally posted by lkscoperepair lkscoperepair wrote:

Hi Slow rider, are you shooting ball or bullet? do you clean your barrel afrer every 2-3  shots? what rifle are you shooting?
Larry
L & K Scope Repair
I'm shooting 300 grain Speer Deep Curl Bullets in Harvester Crush Ribbed Sabots. I normally swab my barrel with rubbing alcohol every 1-2 shots. Sometimes I do it after each shot, but more often than not I fire 2 shots before doing it. This load is over 100 grains of Pyrodex.

The gun is an older Marlin that supposedly was made by T/C for them. It's very very similar to the Black Diamonds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 11:32
lkscoperepair View Drop Down
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This is a puzzlement you have going here. shooting uphill downhill should only affect elavation not windage. As far as the scope it does not sound bad. if the spring broke it would be all over the target, same with a bad adjuster. loose mount or rings would be all over too
Larry
L & K Scope Repair
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 11:42
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Cant could certainly result in the the two on the right side of the target.  The group on the low left...?????  Are you shooting upside down?  
What is your shooting position and are you aligning to the target the same way with every shot? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 14:47
BeltFed View Drop Down
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I'd say check your mounts and rings and make sure they are tight.
I had a Picatiny mount on a weaver base once, and everything seemed tight until I started shooting. I got similar results to yours; a tight group with stray rounds on the target. Couldn't figure it out until I picked the rifle up and heard a clunk. I grabbed the scope and I could wiggle it on the mount. Changed the mounts and solved the problem.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 16:41
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I know this is elementary but which way and how hard was the wind blowing. Did you take it into consideration for your zero. 4 MPH wind could cause this much deviation. Less if was from different directions between shooting days.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 17:41
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Try this:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/jhogema/skeetn/ballist/kantel01/kantel1e.htm

At least you can eliminate it as a problem...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 20:26
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I'd say check your mounts and rings and make sure they are tight.
I had a Picatiny mount on a weaver base once, and everything seemed tight until I started shooting. I got similar results to yours; a tight group with stray rounds on the target. Couldn't figure it out until I picked the rifle up and heard a clunk. I grabbed the scope and I could wiggle it on the mount. Changed the mounts and solved the problem.
I would check scope mount first too, and tight them up with a torque wrench
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 21:01
slowr1der View Drop Down
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Thanks for the help so far guys. It sound like the mounts are what I need to check. I will try to answer the other questions below.
Originally posted by lkscoperepair lkscoperepair wrote:

This is a puzzlement you have going here. shooting uphill downhill should only affect elavation not windage. As far as the scope it does not sound bad. if the spring broke it would be all over the target, same with a bad adjuster. loose mount or rings would be all over too
Larry
L & K Scope Repair
That's kind of what I thought. In the past with the only scope I've had fail to hold zero has moved with every 2 shots or so. I shot all over the place.

Quote
Cant could certainly result in the the two on the right side of the target.  The group on the low left...?????  Are you shooting upside down?  
What is your shooting position and are you aligning to the target the same way with every shot?
Sorry, I should have mentioned that the shot in the lower left was me shooting at the lower left target with another gun. It's not from this one. With this one I shot a fouler shot, then I shot two more shots which were those two to the right. I then adjusted the scope to the left and shot 3 shots which is the 3 shot group you saw. I also have a few stray holes in there from my centerfire rifle too so ignore those. Seeing I moved it too far, I moved it one click back to the right, and I then changed targets and shot a group that was centered like I wanted.

I don't think I was canting it, but I can't be 100% sure I don't guess. The only difference I can think of is when I sighted it in I was shooting on our property where I'm shooting downhill slightly. At this range, the targets are up hill so I'm having to point the gun more upwards to shoot here. The scope has been leveled with the gun, so the reticle isn't canted either.

Quote I know this is elementary but which way and how hard was the wind blowing. Did you take it into consideration for your zero. 4 MPH wind could cause this much deviation. Less if was from different directions between shooting days.

It was a light breeze, but it wasn't blowing hard. I don't remember for sure the last time I shot it, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't blowing hard then either, but it was raining at that time. I didn't think this would make a huge difference at 100 yards though, but I guess I could be wrong.

I think what I'm going to do is see if the mounts feel loose by hand and if they do I will re torque them. If they feel tight, I may shoot it again and see how it shoots and if it still shoots off, I will take it apart and re torque all of the mounts.
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