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Does this mean I need a Tactical Scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2006 at 14:35
macky View Drop Down
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Well I've been reading and reading trying to get a clear understanding of what a Tactical Scope is (and maybe isn't).  I guess bottom line I'm not totally clear .... but here's my situation ....

 

I'm ordering a Remington 700 VSSF II in 22-250 Caliber.  I want to set up a real precise rifle for shooting 100 yards to as far as I can.  I'd like to shoot small game/varmints and/or targets.  I'd be using it at ranges or out in the field.

 

My plan is to start with the off-the shelf VSSF II and who nows, maybe put a barrel on it, maybe a new trigger, maybe a stock with bedding .... who knows ... something to really get into and play.

 

So now on this rifle I need a scope.  I'd like real clear glass so whatever I'm aiming at is as clear as it can be.  I'd like a power range that matches the 22-250 and the type of shooting that I'm interested in ... and I'd like whatever I'm shooting at to look as large as possible without sacraficing some other important quality in a scope.  I'm not going to knock it around the woods ... I tend to take great care of my toys.    I don't think I'm that concerned about super low light.  I'm not that dihard of a hunter ... this is a recreational toy.  I'm not planning on being out in the rain too often ... hey I might get caught a couple of times but if the forecast is rain, I'm homing relaxing.  One thing that sure sounds right to me is that I want a scope that once I estimate the distance to my target (by whatever method)  I can adjust the crosshairs for height and windage, then after that shot can return the scope precisely to zero.

 

I guess I'm not quite sure what else is important ... I'm hoping that you people can help me out understand more about what's important and what's not.  

 

Back to my original question .... does this mean I need a tactical scope ... or a varmint scope with certain features ... or what the heck should I be looking at.

 

Oh yeah .... how much you may ask ..... well I guess I could go somewhere around the 800-900 dollar mark for the scope ... but I am the kind of guy that if there's a good reason to go to the next level I'll cost justify it some way.

I'm looking to have a rifle that I can be proud of how it looks and how well I can shoot it

 

I'm all ears ..... lets go at it.  I'm a rookie here and hoping to learn as much as I can.

 

As always ..... THANKS .... Macky

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2006 at 17:34
koshkin View Drop Down
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If I were you I would not get to hung up on words like "Tactical" or "Varmint".

 

For your application it sounds like you want a scope something along these lines: 6.5-20x50 or 6-24x40 or something along those lines.

 

There are some higher magnification scopes available, but they do not make enough of a difference, really.  At super high magnification you do not necessarily see any better.  Once the magnification gets high there are other factors at play, such as mirage that are important.  Basically I would stick with a scope with high-end magnificaiton of somewhere around 20x to 24x.

 

If you plan to be shooting at long range and doing a lot of clicking, than I would suggest you go with a 30mm tube, although there are certainly excellent 1" scopes out there that would do the trick.  I have recently gone through the exercise of selecting a similar scope for my Savage 22-250 varminter, but my budget was a bit more limited.

 

1" tube scopes:

 

 I basically had it narrowed doen to Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x40 with MilDot and Burris Signature Select 6-24x44.  I ended up going with Elite 4200 but both were very good.  If you need a larger adjustment range in a 1" scope, I suggest looking at Sightron 6.5-20x50MD scope which has nearly as much adjustment range as comparable scope with 30mm tube.  All three have good glass and good adjustments.  Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x44 deserves an honorable mention here as well (and I do not feel like explaining myself to cheaptrick when he complains that I ignored the Monarch yet again).

 

Right at the top of your price range is also Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50 which by all acounts is a great scope.

 

30mm tube scopes:

 

Burris Black Diamond and XTR 6-24x50 with Ballistic MilDot

Leupold VX-III long range 6.5-20x50 with Varmint Hunter's reticle

Sightron S2 6-24x50 with MilDot reticle

 

I do not think you'd be disappointed with any of the above scopes.  If you expect to need a lot of adjustment range, I would highly recommend going with either one of the 30mm scopes or with Sightron S2 or Zeiss COnquest which both have 45" or so of adjustment at 100 yards.

 

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2006 at 18:15
macky View Drop Down
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Hey koshkin .... thanks for the reply

 

Actually I was trying not to get hung up on the words tactical or varmint .... I was kinda thinking that as long as I got the features that I needed it didn't matter what I called it ...

 

First ... thanks for giving me some direction on what power to look at things like 3-10 and 4.5-14 but was concerned that it would not be enough.  Looks like my very first thought of being more in the 20x to 24x is more like it .... I'd really like to be able to see longer range small targets.

 

I had read about the difference between the 1" and the 30mm and had come up with going if I was going to do allot of longer range shooting the 30mm was the way to go.  I also read about using different length scope mounts so that you can get most of your swing towards the elevation side of the scope (I think I got that right)

 

Also .... thanks for starting me out with some specific models .... it's hard not knowing what scopes have what "good" and having to rely on marketing, and reading forums.  I'll take a look at those and see what ones "trip my trigger"

 

Hey .... what Savage 22-250 did you get?  I was looking at those also ... I kinda decided on the Remington 700 cause of the rep that the "Remington Short Action Receiver" had as a base for a modified gun ... I hope that the right decesion .... but I guess we live and we learn.

 

Was I correct about needing finger turnable turrets to really use the scope properly ... being able to conpensate for distance/elevation and wind and then easily return it back to "0"

 

Again ... THANKS .... Greatly Appreciated

 

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2006 at 20:10
koshkin View Drop Down
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I bought a Savage 12FV with Accu-trigger and then put it into a Choate Ultimate Varmint stock.  I use a Ken Farrell one piece base and Burris Signature Zee rings which allow me to avoid messing with a 20MOA base.  I can just put in a different insert into the rings and I am good to go.

 

The reason I got the Savage is that I am very impressed with the Accu-trigger.  Also, Savage has excellent out of the box accuracy, and if I do decide to replace the barrel it is very easy to do it by myself with no need for a lathe.

 

As far as scopes go, I almost never use the full 24x of magnification.  In real life you often end up with a better (although smaller) picture at 16x than at 24x.  However, since there is no compelling need to have a low end magnification below 6x on a varmint rig, I see no harm in getting the scope with 24x top end for those rare occasions when the conditions are perfect for it.

 

30mm vs 1" is really a very general guide line.  If you go to manufacturers' websites they tell you what the adjustment range is on their scopes.  1" Sightron S2 and Conquest have 45".  30mm Burris Black DIamond and Sightron S3 have 50" as does IOR hunting 6-24x50.  Leupold 30mm long range scopes offer a larger 72" adjustment range.

 

You may want to look at the trajectory of 22-250 and figure out what kind of an adjustment range you need.  One thing to consider is that 22-250 is really not a true long range cartridge due to light bullets used.  They really suffer from a lot of wind drift at extended ranges, and their relatively poor Ballistic Coefficient makes them shed velocity quicker than heavier projectiles that start out a bit slower.  22-250 would probably work well with heavy for caliber bullets, but most 22-250 barrels have 1 in 14 (Remington) or 1 in 12 (Savage) twist rates which are really not enough to stabilize bullet heavier than 60gr.

 

I do not remember the exact numbers, but I think that 22-250 with most bullets really looses steam past 600 yards.  For that kind of a distance, any of the scopes in my previous post have enough adjustment range.

 

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2006 at 00:27
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Once you get into the over $600 price range you will find that all of those scopes are pretty good or nobody would buy one.  Unlike koshkin I have a strong preference for Leupold Mark 4 tactical scopes, but I cary a gun for a living. I have an 8.5 to 25 illuminated that I just love.  Right now on samplelist there are several of them less the box at a significant savings.

The idea of 20 to 25 is viable for varmits but a 4.5 to 14  or even a fixed 10x would work ok. The 30mm tube is important because they tend to have more MOA adjustment the (Leu Mk4 8.5-25 has 75MOA adjustment),  the (Leu Mk4  fixed 16x has 140MOA adjustment ) the (Leu Mk 4 4.5-14 has 100MOA adjustment). these long range scopes focus from 75 yds on out.

 

I would consider the  NikonTactical 4-16 and monarch gold 2.5-10 (30mm) hope they make one with more power in this line , Burris Tactical ,  Nightforce has a lot of fans but I find them to be too bulky - (the rifle mounted  Hubbel telescope). Most of the european scopes are nice so look at as many as you can before deciding. I would also consider the Super Sniper scopes the 10X is the most popular at $300 to $400.. (I didnt care much for the Bushnell 4200 that I looked at today)  And No it doesnt have to be a tactical scope but the ones with side focus and easily adjustable knobs have a lot going for them.

 

201931 New Burris 6-24x50 Xtreme Tactical XTR 30mm Rifle Scope New Burris 6-24x50 Xtreme Tactical XTR 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Ballistic Mil-Dot   (probably not in stock yet this is new)
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
SWFA: $770.95
6698 Nikon 4-16x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope Nikon 4-16x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Nikoplex
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Free Lens Caps w/ Purchase
  • Free 2.5" Sun Shade w/ Purchase
  • Last Years Model
SWFA: $999.95
LEU56090 Leupold 8.5-25x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope Leupold 8.5-25x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte         & amp; nbsp;         & amp; nbsp;         & amp; nbsp; *** See  Samplelist   $1,149.95
  • Illuminated Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • Side Focus
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
SWFA: $1,349.95

Samplelist:

 

 

 

 

Nikon 6.5-20x44 A/O Monarch   Matte finish, red and green illuminated Nikoplex reticle, target knobs, adjustable objective, fast focus eye piece, additional tapered knobs, like new condition, factory refurbished   (1in)    $549.95
6622 Nikon 2.5-10x56 Monarch Gold 30mm Riflescope Nikon 2.5-10x56 Monarch Gold 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Nikoplex
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
SWFA: $799.95
I wish this came in higher power the knobs are great - just the right height and super bright optics.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2006 at 04:38
macky View Drop Down
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Thanks to both of you for your "Informative" replies.  I tell ya ... the more information I get the more I realize that I have LOTS to learn.  That's actually one of the reasons that getting into all of this interests me.

 

Do either of you guys know of a site (like this one) that focuses on rifles/bullets/etc .... I'd love to be able to have discussions about different brand rifles, calibers, trajectories, etc, like I can have here about scopes/optics.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2006 at 21:16
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2006 at 11:06
sscoyote View Drop Down
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These guya r right-on for getting the most out of your rig. I have a 4.5-14X Leup. LR that has 100 MOA of adjustment, and a friend that has the 8.5-25X LR that claims 90 MOA. I will be getting another 8.5-25X LR with the TMR reticle that'll be excellent for a more accurate windage reference, as well as providing a good holdover system for the calm days--

 

http://www.leupold.com/products/reticles_TMR.htm

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2006 at 12:50
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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The TMR is an excellent choice.

 

Sample list has a whole herd of the illuminated mil dot ones at a bargain price:

4512 Leupold 8.5-25x50 Mark 4 M1 LR/T Iluminated Click for Picture Matte finish, 30mm tube, side focus parallax, illuminated mil dot reticle, M1 style 1/4 moa windage and elevation, fast focus eye piece, very close to new display model, minor handling wear, missing original box $1,564.00 $1,149.95



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
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