New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Does Nightforce cause groups to shrink??
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Does Nightforce cause groups to shrink??

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 14:08
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5751
yesterday one of our top competitors posted on one of our local forums the following: (in Afrikaans, so the link will not help)
 
My new Nightforce NXS 8-32 x 56 has halved the size of my groupings !!!
 
He then posted two targets showing allmost one hole groupings.
 
So the groupings did not go say from 5 inches due to a cheap chinese scope to a now 2,5 inches.
We are talking of a top class shooter here.
 
He claims that this result is because of Nightforce scopes.
 
I have asked him to explain this...is this because of the bigger magnification or because the reticule does not jump or move due to recoil ?
 
So far he has evaded answering the question.
 
Now is this possible ??
 
Please do not ask how many shots in each target, what distance was it, how long dit he aim, what caliber did he use, what rifle, how old is he, what his mother had for breakfast etc.
 
Simply, will a Nightforce shrink your grouping by half from an allready tight grouping. His earlier groupings must have been 1/4 inch if it is now 1/8 inch. He is also a top shot, so all his equipment is and was top dog. So his previous scope was probably a Leupold Target or Mk4. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 14:16
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
Maybe just confidence in a new optic gave him a higher confidence behind the trigger. 
 
Until its no longer a new NIghtforce and he's gotten more trigger time I'd be hesitate to say they are going to all be 1/8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 18:37
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
There is a reason the Br series are used for bench rest and F class in a large number of cases. Perhaps they bring out the potential that is just there, more than another brand. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 21:14
dsr View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: May/31/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 242

The only reasonable explanation that I can provide is the reticle on the NightForce is very fine and maybe he was able to improve his precision of aim. (This is just a guess – so take for what it is worth)

 Without doing a bivariate statistical analysis of his previous s targets it is almost impossible to tell if the target in question is really an improvement or just a statistical anomaly.   

dsr
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 00:01
Bitterroot Bulls View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: May/07/2009
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 3377
There is the possibility that the new scope is mounted more precisely.  Or maybe the harmonics of the entire weapon have been affected.

Or maybe it is coincidence.

Oh shoot, I don't know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 02:45
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5751
Thanks for replies.
I do not for a minute believe his statement in its entirety and see it like your replies. Just a confidence booster and the bigger magnification helping him to aim more precise. So any new premium scope brand with similiar specs will do the same job.
 
Oh, he started of his discussion by stating...there is a reason why the top benchrest shooters use Nightforce, and I have discovered the same.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 08:47
Steelbenz View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
ROLL TIDE ROLL

Joined: January/03/2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Status: Online
Points: 4900
No more likely it"s just brain fodder for buying a new scope.

Sorry Wouter, just had to say it!   Roll on Floor Laughing


Edited by Steelbenz - June/11/2011 at 08:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 10:38
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087

The statement (or rather testimonial) is similar to the schmidt and bender advertisement by the sniper who states "I could never have made that shot without the S$B". What part the scope plays in the end result whether cognitive or definitive is still there.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 11:45
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4613
As mentioned there are a number of variables that could be part of this. Some even subjective and "in the shooter's head." He may have had a scope on there before that wasn't as good. Given my experience, a scope that has rock-solid tracking will be a help and will remove any distracting doubts regarding its reliability. NF has that, if not the greatest glass. But in broad daylight, when I've shot alternating rounds between a NF, Premier and SS 3-9 glass was not a factor. Neither was the reticle in each (all mil-dot variations).

So I could see where just getting a scope that tracks really well could be enough on its own to tighten up groups. But I'd take it with a grain of salt that anyone could just go out and buy a particular brand of scope and expect that. Depends on what's being replaced.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 03:30
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5751
The comments are quite interesting. No-one is rubbishing his statement as just nonsense.
 
The view seems that as in any other sport or human endeavour, that ability and equipment gets you to the top 10, but the mind gets you to the no 1 spot. So if Nightforce does it for him, who can argue?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 03:44
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5751
The person has finally replied as follows:
 
The first group was shot on 22X as a result of a lot of mirage. The second group a day later was shot under great conditions on 32X. The reason for the smaller groups are the clarity of the sight picture, the correct thickness of the reticule and that one can aim precisely for each shot.
 
Well, I can do all of that with a lot of other scopes, including my Leupold TMR.
 
I think the reason for the improved groupings can, as stated above, be found between the ears. And when something upsets his mojo such as a bad day at the office etc,  groupings will revert to his normal average.


Edited by 8shots - June/12/2011 at 03:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 08:44
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
One thing not mentioned, at 32x the smallest movement is detected, and to take advantage of the scope, the gun must be rigid on a solid bench. Given all the hoops that bench-rest shooters jump through, gun prep, load prep etc. it makes their "playing field" pretty even across the board. The question "Does a Stoll action give a better chance of winning than a Stiller?" will go on and on. A better question for an individual to ask would be, "Will a NF make me a better shot? Given that bench-rest shooters usually don't use cheek weld during the firing sequence and in most cases don't even use a normal grip on, who can know the answer to this question.
Using both the Leo's TMR and BR scopes and reticles, I can state the NFs ccertainly have the leos beat, in both the reticles and the turrets. As far as using something like a Sightron with the innards epoxed for non- movement who knows? Equipment races in action shooting are much worse. The top shooters will be within fractions of seconds of each other, indicating that the human element has maxed out and the only remaining advantage will found in some equipment trick.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 12:32
boats View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: June/05/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Old rule of thumb is the average shooter using post front and aperture rear can resolve to 1 moa.  Scopes improve that by there power.  Others words a 4 power resolves to 1/4 moa 10 power by 1/10 moa etc.  Everybodys eyes are different however it's a good rule of thumb
 
My experence is along the lines of resolving by the scopes power. Difference in one brand to the other may be clarity or more important the adjustments tracking properly. Power is power and many brands have high power target scopes.
 
Would be hard to convince me one brand is so much better than another defined by groups on paper when comparing to scopes that have proven track records in formal matches.
 
Boats
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Does Nightforce cause groups to shrink??"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
group shift, 2 grouping? rogn Rifle Scopes 9 12/15/2006 7:25:01 AM
What causes the black hole? gtwenty Rifle Scopes 2
QUESTION: What has caused the improvement??? The Apostle Firearms 20
Can (or does) chromatic aberration cause misses? MZ5 Rifle Scopes 3
What's Causing This? (pic) M7025-06 Reloading & Ballistics 17
What causes cross hairs to cant? mickey Rifle Scopes 12
looking for good binos that wont cause eye fatigue Robster80 Binoculars 6
What happened to my Nightforce? Fotis Rifle Scopes 13
Nightforce SHV 4X14X50 F1 saltydog235 Rifle Scopes 0
Nightforce SHV and alternatives Dtex Rifle Scopes 6


This page was generated in 0.359 seconds.