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Difference between cameras with good optic zoom...

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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2015 at 16:53
Nikon P900 offers a lot of zoom, but not all of it us truly usable.  Still, out to 1800mm, it is surprisingly decent.

As far as overall image quality goes, it is decent for the price and for the reach you get, but ultimately very mediocre (Canon SX50 mentioned earlier is somewhat similar if not worse).

The decision really comes down to how much magnification you are looking for.  P900, to me, has a very limited range of applications due to noise imaging pipeline and limited dynamic range.  You need a lot of even lighting to make that long zoom lens work.

If I were buying a bridge camera today, I would be taking a close look at Panasonic FZ1000, Sony RX10 Mark II and Canon G3X.  As an allround camera, the FZ1000 is probably your best bet for the money.  All three do quite well, all things considered, in low light.

While none of these have as much reach as the P900, they actually deliver quality images in a variety of conditions.

To address another question i saw earlier in the thread: if you attach your cellphone to an eyepiece of a binocular, the effective focal length of your observation system is the equivalent focal length of the lens in your cell phone multiplied by the magnification factor of the binocular.

For example, if you are using a 8x42 binocular with an iPhone 6, the effective focal length you end up with is 8x29=232mm.

If you use your iPhone with a spotting spotter that can go all the way out to 60x, you end up with an effective focal length of 1740mm.  

I like phonescoping (which is apparently a real term), but I use a much higher resolution Lumia 1020 phone for it, so I can get the combination to reach very far.

The biggest advantage of using a spotter or binocular with a cellphone is that digital cameras are not designed for observation, regardless of how much detail the camera may be capturing, seeing it on that small screen is difficult for any prolonged observation.

ILya


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2015 at 17:28
Thanks for post Ilya. What do you think about this guys's analysis of noise/dynamic range. He actually compares nikon p900 to some of the ones you mention. Results don't seem to indicate what you're saying.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/compact-cameras/nikon-p900-1294602/review/4
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2015 at 18:23
Originally posted by qpalzm qpalzm wrote:

Thanks for post Ilya. What do you think about this guys's analysis of noise/dynamic range. He actually compares nikon p900 to some of the ones you mention. Results don't seem to indicate what you're saying.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/compact-cameras/nikon-p900-1294602/review/4

To be honest, the most likely culprit is incompetence. I suspect, the guys at Techradar got their methodology from DXO.  DXO dynamic range test when performed on JPEG images is almost useless.  If you see the images side by side, you'll see what I mean.

Keep in mind that the only test he does where FZ1000 is comparable to the other cameras there is dynamic range.  It pulls away from the rest of the cameras in other tests.

As a general disclaimer: while I work in the camera industry, I am not associated with any of the companies mentioned here, so I do not have any professional interest in one camera being better than the other.

I have, however, had my team evaluated all of the imagers mentioned here in a laboratory setting.

Thanks
ILya

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2015 at 19:23
Do you know of any other published analysis (from other reputable sources) that analyze it as you do?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2015 at 19:34
Originally posted by qpalzm qpalzm wrote:

Do you know of any other published analysis (from other reputable sources) that analyze it as you do?




Really doubt if there's a better source!
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It is the same when you are stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2015 at 19:42
Originally posted by qpalzm qpalzm wrote:

Do you know of any other published analysis (from other reputable sources) that analyze it as you do?



Honestly, I never bothered to look, so I am not sure.  It would be uncommon to compare a small sensor DSC with a large sensor DSC though.  The results are too predictable, so it is not very interesting.

Of the small sensor superzoom cameras, the P900 is probably the best bet.  They all use comparable imagers and the lens on the p900 is surprisingly decent.

Like most cameras of this type it has extremely (in my opinion) heavy handed approach to noise reduction and sharpening.  

That is the decision for you to make: do you want the far reach or the better image quality?

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2016 at 13:19
Think I will be buying the p900 in the next few days..thanks guys for your thoughts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2016 at 21:04
Please report back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2016 at 14:31
Is $725 (Canadian) a good price for this camera? (including tax)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 13:56
I received it today but I am currently charging the battery!
Will provide some thoughts in the next little bit!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 15:43
So a bit of a dumb question.

I still need to get a memory card but should the zoom option be able to work without the memory card? (as i'm not actually storing a pic or taking a vid)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 19:16
Wow. 

I hope that I'm missing something here but not impressed. I know that this is not a low light camera, but even with decent lighting at subject/object, i just can't see anything all that clearly. Second, it doesn't appear to be able to zoom as far as it really says (without giving too much vibration/shaking) or really degrading picture quality. Third, I often have to wait a good 5-10 seconds for the black screen to go away so i can actually see the view (the camera constantly seems to turn off the display/tun it back on)..very annoying.

I have it set for manual zooming..but im not sure if some other settings need to be changed?

Cheers for any help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 22:30
TO use that much telephoto handheld, even with the built-in stabilization takes a little technique.

Still, the rest of the things you are reporting are odd, so perhaps you need to flip through the manual and/or call Nikon.

Also, I would like to point out that regardless of what the spec says, ultra long telephoto is sorta complicated and I'll be very surprised if you get any sort of respectable image quality anywhere near the spec'ed extent of the telephoto.  If you get somethimg decent at 1200mm equivalent, consider it a lucky day and stop right there.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 08:52
I'll check it out more..but I also now agree that doing any sort of observation with cameras is sort of brutal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 09:59
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

More light in the scene simply allows you to use lower ISO, which means less digital noise, which means better image quality.

For years I have been wondering what is the significance of ISO on digital cameras since they're not using film.  My daughter's camera ( a Canon D6 ) is brighter with faster lenses and I thought faster lenses simply allowed you to SEE the picture as your eyes saw it, rather than being unnaturally dark.  

I get it ( kind of...)  ....NOISE!!   Whatever    My daughter's f 1.8 lens ( Voigtlander or Zeiss, I forget ) actually makes nighttime look a half hour earlier!!  Stare



     Bucky





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 11:55
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Nikon P900 offers a lot of zoom, but not all of it us truly usable.  Still, out to 1800mm, it is surprisingly decent.

As far as overall image quality goes, it is decent for the price and for the reach you get, but ultimately very mediocre (Canon SX50 mentioned earlier is somewhat similar if not worse).

The decision really comes down to how much magnification you are looking for.  P900, to me, has a very limited range of applications due to noise imaging pipeline and limited dynamic range.  You need a lot of even lighting to make that long zoom lens work.

If I were buying a bridge camera today, I would be taking a close look at Panasonic FZ1000, Sony RX10 Mark II and Canon G3X.  As an allround camera, the FZ1000 is probably your best bet for the money.  All three do quite well, all things considered, in low light.

While none of these have as much reach as the P900, they actually deliver quality images in a variety of conditions.

To address another question i saw earlier in the thread: if you attach your cellphone to an eyepiece of a binocular, the effective focal length of your observation system is the equivalent focal length of the lens in your cell phone multiplied by the magnification factor of the binocular.

For example, if you are using a 8x42 binocular with an iPhone 6, the effective focal length you end up with is 8x29=232mm.

If you use your iPhone with a spotting spotter that can go all the way out to 60x, you end up with an effective focal length of 1740mm.  

I like phonescoping (which is apparently a real term), but I use a much higher resolution Lumia 1020 phone for it, so I can get the combination to reach very far.

The biggest advantage of using a spotter or binocular with a cellphone is that digital cameras are not designed for observation, regardless of how much detail the camera may be capturing, seeing it on that small screen is difficult for any prolonged observation.

ILya



I have to say that you were right. I think i've played enough with the settings to see that it's not me making a mistake that's causing me to be disappointed by this camera.

1. About the observation.. Staring at that screen while zooming is not realistic for any long period of time. Not good for observation.

2. I have shaky hands..this can't be really solved. It's not a huge problem, but it's enough of a problem that in combination with zooming in far enough, and me shaking a bit, picture quality is bad.

3. This camera is not ideal for any type of low light situation. Even when there is decent lighting..I can still see my object better with my $200 binocular than with this camera. I don't really agree (At least with this camera) with the person that said that camera tends to give you a better image and binos less so. This in large part was what sold me. I got the impression that when i looked at the screen of the camera (or at least the actual pic/video after) that the quality would impress me. In night, with at least some light, it's not better than my $200 binocular.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 13:09
After giving that beautiful and rave review..I'm open to selling it. I'm in Canada (since the Canadian dollar is quite weak) you guys can get a good deal.

I'll sell it for $770 Canadian (which is $550 American). You not only save $50 but you save on taxes. (and if you are not too far, I'll pay full for shipping) As I said I've only had it a couple days.

Despite my poor reviews, you should realize that I'm not very good with technology (so I could be possibly missing something) + it isn't exactly ideal for my uses.

Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 15:38
I miss the simplicity of just push processing TMAX 3200 and then printing it myself. Whatever

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpalzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 15:44
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I miss the simplicity of just push processing TMAX 3200 and then printing it myself. Whatever
haha. I'm sure you are commenting at what I said...again I will read the manuals more..but this is not brain surgery. i looked at the manuals..changed to the settings it told me to change ..and still wasn't pleased.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 20:53
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Low light + heavy zoom + quality images = mega $$$. There's just no way around that fact.
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