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DIAL-IN VS. HOLD OVER...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 18:10
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Optics GrassHopper
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WAS WONDERING HOW MANY OF YOU GUY'S USE WHICH METHOD WHEN SHOOTING.

I HAVE A REMINGTON XR-100 IN 22-250, LOOKING FOR A SCOPE TO SHOOT TARGET / VARMINT
FROM 100-500 YRDS
BEING RATHER IN-EXPERIENCED WITH LONG RANGE SHOOTNG. I AM WONDERING WHAT IS THE MORE PRACTICAL METHOD. FROM THEIR TAKE THIS INFO TO THE MARKET FOR A SCOPE.

LEANING TO DIALING AND
LOOKING @ THE NIKON MONARCH IN 6-24X50 FOR LONG RANGE P-DOG/TARGET


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 18:18
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Dialing in is a whole lot easer at 400/ and beyond/just too hard to try hold over...IMO
good scope too!


Edited by rifle looney - January/05/2009 at 18:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 18:42
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I actually use both. I use a Rapid-Z reticle for hold over, and also have a BDC calibrated turret. I have the hold over reticle on my long range deer rifle, and the turret on a .17 hmr. Dialing, I think could be more accurate if your scope tracks very well. When using my hold over reticle, I'm usually shooting at a 10" steel gong in the 4-700 range. With the reticle telling me where to hold, I have no trouble hitting it. I have used the turret to hit prairie dog sized targets out to about 300 yards, but once dialed in to hit the same gong at 400 with the .17 hmr. This was far past what my dial was marked to. Actually about two full turns. If you go the hold over route, get a good reticle, or you will never be very consistant. If you are going to dial, just make sure to get a scope that is known to track very well. I am now starting to use both methods together. My Rapid-Z is marked to 800 yds, so I am going to try dialing up to 1000 using the 800 yd crosswire.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 18:53
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Man! I don't even have a place to shoot that far.and all that tech talk .....BLA BLA BLA.
thanks for the info Trigger.now we know how?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 19:19
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Well, just move to South Dakota. You want to shoot 4000 yards? I can probably put you on a spot. We have a tree population of about 2 trees per square mile in parts of the state, and it's flat here. It's not really that hard, it just takes time, and practice. A couple years ago I would have never tried to shoot anything over 300-350 yards. I came here, upgraded equipment, and spend loads of $$ on ammo.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 19:27
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That I will .....come to s,Dakota that is. I am trying to do all the states Ive ever wanted ta visit and S;D is one of them. maybe I can come during deer season? that would be so cool. the hunting here and the regs just suck a..!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 19:28
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

That I will .....come to s,Dakota that is. I am trying to do all the states Ive ever wanted ta visit and S;D is one of them. maybe I can come during deer season? that would be so cool. the hunting here and the regs just suck a..!
 
You will have to show up twice. Deer season and prairie dog slaughter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 19:31
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sooooo.......you gonna twist my arm. till I say yes?....that wont be necessary.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 19:33
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

sooooo.......you gonna twist my arm. till I say yes?....that wont be necessary.
 
Just 'till you bring me that rifle.Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 22:16
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Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Dialing, I think could be more accurate if your scope tracks very well.  If you are going to dial, just make sure to get a scope that is known to track very well.
 
 
WHEN YOU SAY "TRACK WELL"
WHAT DO YOU MEAN?....REPEATAILTY / RETURNING TO ZERO?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2009 at 23:24
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Yes. and not exactly. When you dial you can always repeat to the same point. Some scopes may return to zero but are not consistant between the clicks through out its range of clicks. I hope this clicks.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 00:13
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Yes, in a perfect world, you would get .25 moa per click, every time, if thats what the scope was advertised to do. Not only .25 moa that you dial away from your zero, but when you dial back also, so you return perfectly to your zero. If it tracks perfectly, you can dial up 15 moa, and back to zero, and get 15 moa up, not 13.75, or 17.25.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 01:03
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For both holdover and dialing in, you need to know your scope and rifle/ammo pretty well.  All the good long range shooters I have heard of use clicks.  Personally, I am pretty comfortable using holdover out to about 500 yards.  Beyond that, it gets tough and I prety much have to use clicks.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 01:42
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I was out at the range a couple of days ago with my 300 H&H and a Leupold 3,5-10 with duplex reticule. Scope zeroed at 200yds. At 300yds bullet drop (200grSGK) was 8 inches, so holdover was easy. Simply one steel plate above the target and let rip. At 500yds things became a bit tricky with holdover at 48 inches.
So I agree that for optimum accuracy dial in at longer distances becomes essential unless you have a graded reticule.


Edited by 8shots - January/06/2009 at 02:06
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 22:38
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Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

Yes. and not exactly. When you dial you can always repeat to the same point. Some scopes may return to zero but are not consistant between the clicks through out its range of clicks. I hope this clicks.

 
makes pefect sense...Big Grin
 
so how do you feel that the nikon monarch will score in this department?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 22:42
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I have not handled one of the new Monarchs yet. I have not been terribly impressed with mine so far. (not the new Monarch unfortunately)Others on here have said good things about them. Maybe mine is just not a good one, or something is wrong. I believe cheaptrick did a review of the new Monarch. I'll see if I can find it for you.
 
Found it. Here you go. Mark seemed to be impressed.
 


Edited by trigger29 - January/06/2009 at 22:45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 22:53
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Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Yes, in a perfect world, you would get .25 moa per click, every time, if thats what the scope was advertised to do. Not only .25 moa that you dial away from your zero, but when you dial back also, so you return perfectly to your zero. If it tracks perfectly, you can dial up 15 moa, and back to zero, and get 15 moa up, not 13.75, or 17.25.
 
THIS ALSO MAKES VERY GOOD SENSE..
BUT WITH THAT EING SAID ....WOULDNT IT ALL BE RELATIVE ANYWAY
REGARDLESS OF HOW TIGHTLY THE CLICKS ADHERE TO THE GIVEN MEASUREMENT ON THE
KNOB.
AS LONG AS [ LIKE U SAID ] YOU ARE FAMILIAr WITH YOUR PARTICULAR RIG AND AMMO
ANY GIVEN SHOT SHOULD BE PHEASABLE AND SEMI-REPEATABLE IF THE SCOPE TRACKS WELL
 
MAKE SENSE?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 22:55
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Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

I have not handled one of the new Monarchs yet. I have not been terribly impressed with mine so far. (not the new Monarch unfortunately)Others on here have said good things about them. Maybe mine is just not a good one, or something is wrong. I believe cheaptrick did a review of the new Monarch. I'll see if I can find it for you.
 
Found it. Here you go. Mark seemed to be impressed.
 
 
READ THAT
SEEMED MORE GEARED MORE AS AN EVALUATION OF THE BDC RAQTHER THAN THE ACTUALLY QUALITY, CONSISTANCY/TRACKING OF THE SCOPE
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 09:36
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I have an old Weaver El Paso that tracks perfect 1/4"out to 20 clicks up then it seems to increase to 1/3 nearing the outer end of its range.(I assumed that this was because it was getting out of the sweet spot of the scope). I was able to learn the scope to make adjustments. In other words a click was not always 1/4". The answer is No not the same per click but, Yes it did the same thing every time. I hope this clarifies my previous statement for you.
Lile


Edited by 3_tens - January/07/2009 at 09:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 09:48
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prarie dog hunting and known distance shooting are a lot different than unkown distance first shot first hit shooting. in the first corrections are easily made by watching strikes and correcting, and in pd hunting one tends to shoot out the populace at that distance instead of going back and forth on ukd's as in a 3 gun match or rifle competition. This advantage covers up a lot of slop in most scopes. a "good" scope with reticle will usually reach 1000 yd just in the reticle alone before any dial in.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 10:03
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Good discussion guys.

One more comment I would make is tat if you plan to dial in for distance shooting, you should invest in a scope that is consistent and repeatable for the whole adjustment range.  As long as things are fairly repeatable, you can learn to use anything I suppose, but this may be the case where you just have to bit the bullet and spend some money on a good scope.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 10:43
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Good discussion guys.

One more comment I would make is tat if you plan to dial in for distance shooting, you should invest in a scope that is consistent and repeatable for the whole adjustment range.  As long as things are fairly repeatable, you can learn to use anything I suppose, but this may be the case where you just have to bit the bullet and spend some money on a good scope.

ILya
 
ANY SUGGESTIONS..
I'M CURRANTLY IN THE MARKET FOR SAID SCOPE.
GETTING READY TO PULL THE TRIGGER ON THE NIKON MONARCH 6-24X50
 
WOULD LIKE TO STAY IN THE RANGE OF $500
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 12:18
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In that range, you could add the Sightron SII Big Sky. Closer to $600, but I've heard good things about the tracking. Not saying this is "the one", but worth looking at.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2009 at 10:25
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This Schmidt and Bender reticle is set up for the 22-250. Zero it at 100 and each dot takes you out one hundred yards. No dialing, no holdover. Side dots are for wind compensation. FFP too so distance between dots is constant at all powers. Got one on a 4-16x50 classic and it works as advertised. Will, of course work for other calibers, you only have to figure out what range the lower dots are dead on for and tape a note on the stock.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2009 at 12:41
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Originally posted by tinytim tinytim wrote:

This Schmidt and Bender reticle is set up for the 22-250. Zero it at 100 and each dot takes you out one hundred yards. No dialing, no holdover. Side dots are for wind compensation. FFP too so distance between dots is constant at all powers. Got one on a 4-16x50 classic and it works as advertised. Will, of course work for other calibers, you only have to figure out what range the lower dots are dead on for and tape a note on the stock.


 
THESE WOULD BE OUT OF MY PRICE RANGE THOUGH...NO?
 
 
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