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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 08:48
tahqua View Drop Down
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Your shots seem to have moved opposite of which they should. If you go from a droop compensated to a non-compensated mount you should be shooting higher. Have you run out of scope adjustment?
I have run some Leupolds on some heavy springers, Webley Patriot and RWS 350 Magnum, and have not run into any problems. Leupold told me all of their scopes air springer rated.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 09:43
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Hi there, yes that's what I thought should happen.

I havn't touched the scope dials since it was sent back from Leupold USA, but I did look at it through the bathroom mirror and both images were lined up over one another so I guessed that they did optically centre the scope before shipping, however the scope may not be mechanically centered, maybe?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 10:27
tahqua View Drop Down
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I would get centered on target and see where you are. You may not need droop compensation. Yet, I should say.
Good luck and get back with your results if you would.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 12:23
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Originally posted by Novusordo Novusordo wrote:


I havn't touched the scope dials since it was sent back from Leupold USA, but I did look at it through the bathroom mirror and both images were lined up over one another so I guessed that they did optically centre the scope before shipping, however the scope may not be mechanically centered, maybe?


Even if the scope was zeroed before you sent it in to Leupold. I would expect that you would have to re-zero it after it came back from them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 19:12
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Ok just took the scope off the gun and went about counting clicks and found that the windage clicks were the same as before I sent the scope to Leupold - 328 clicks, but the elevation was wound down all the way to the bottom, most likely to relax the spring tension during shipping. The weird thing is, when the scope arrived back I immediately looked at it through the mirror and found both reticle images to be perfectly super-imposed upon one another which made me assume that Leupold had mechanically centered the scope for me before shipping back however the elevation turret was wound all the way to the bottom... how then, did the mirror trick reveal two perfectly lined-up images? Is this some sort of Leupold wizadry where they optically zeroed the scope but not mechanically???

Another weird quirk is that my first 8 counts of the elevation turret produced these figures, 236, 245, 251, 234, 240, 249, 220 and 235, owing to the now unreliable "feel" of when the clicking actually ends, but then on the 9th count (yes I know I'm very thorough with all testing ) revealed a total click count of 300. That's a whole 49 clicks more than the second highest click count I performed. Now before the scope went to Leupold for strengthening the elevation click count was 334. I wonder what figure I'll get if I count yet again?

All this quirkiness concerns me quite a bit. I just want repeatability and reliability, and for the god damm thing to make sense to me for once. I hope tomorrow morning my POI will be significantly closer to my POA and not a ridiculous 7 inches low bullsh*t like earlier today!


p.s can a mod delete my previous post as I couldn't find an edit button!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 19:17
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Gotta have like 50 points before you can edit your own posts. Then "Edit Post" will appear in the post options button.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 19:22
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Originally posted by Novusordo Novusordo wrote:



All this quirkiness concerns me quite a bit. I just want repeatability and reliability, and for the god damm thing to make sense to me for once. I hope tomorrow morning my POI will be significantly closer to my POA and not a ridiculous 7 inches low bullsh*t like earlier today!



Just wondering how are you going to zero your scope?

Are you thinking that the mechanical center of the scope your POI and POA should be the same?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 19:53
tahqua View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Novusordo Novusordo wrote:

The weird thing is, when the scope arrived back I immediately looked at it through the mirror and found both reticle images to be perfectly super-imposed upon one another which made me assume that Leupold had mechanically centered the scope for me before shipping back however the elevation turret was wound all the way to the bottom... how then, did the mirror trick reveal two perfectly lined-up images? Is this some sort of Leupold wizadry where they optically zeroed the scope but not mechanically???



 
I am missing something here. What does looking through the reticle at a mirror show? I can't connect a mechanically centered reticle having something to do with being superimposed over the reflection in a mirror.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 21:23
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No sparky, I just want the scope centered BEFORE I zero it.

tahqua I did suspect the two methods are not quite the same, but wasn't 100% sure becuase there's so many places on the internet which describe the two methods as able to achieve the same effect.

That being said, when I click the turrets, the image in the mirror does change to reflect the clicking that I just did. I'm just wondering how Leupold managed to click the elevation all the way down yet still have both reticles line up with each other in the mirror... any idea?

By the way I just counted the elevation clicks for the 9th time and read 333 and when I clicked back 176 clicks, both reticles looked perfectly lined up in the mirror, so I guess 333 is the correct elevation click count for my scope. I guess the newly installed duel erector spring has disrupted the clicks becuase before the work was done I remember the elvation turret had perfectly positve stops at each end, but now they feel sloppy.

I'm going to try the method of centering the scope where you rotate the scope and see if the x hair moves in an arc or not.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 21:45
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I am sooooooo lost on this mirror thing.Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 22:00
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Dont suppose you are over thinking it do you?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 22:06
Sparky View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Novusordo Novusordo wrote:



That being said, when I click the turrets, the image in the mirror does change to reflect the clicking that I just did. I'm just wondering how Leupold managed to click the elevation all the way down yet still have both reticles line up with each other in the mirror... any idea?

I have never even heard of a scope having two reticles, only one. Which is probably why you only see one.

I'm going to try the method of centering the scope where you rotate the scope and see if the x hair moves in an arc or not.

Why do you want to do this? I have never heard of anyone doing this as well. If you are at or close to the mechanical center of the scope, just zero it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 22:57
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I dont get any of this either. Who cares where it is at. Just mount and zero that thing and shoot it. I have never once worried about all this mechanical zero stuff. All my scopes still work just fine. The only place it really matters is when it is mounted on your rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 23:41
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Just do your count once, divide by 2, click back that many and call it mechanically zeroed.  Then stick it on your rifle and see what happens.  Then let us know.

Never heard of this mirror things, and don't see the point in it.  Mount the scope and see if it holds zero and is repeatable with the clicks.  That will tell you far more about the scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 00:27
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Ok tried the rotating scope trick and the reticle x hair kept on point all the way through a full 360 rotation so I now know for sure that the scope is 100% mechanically centered and I'm now just waiting for first light to have a go at zeroing. I'm bringing my other mount along with some photo negative. I want to use the mount that gives me the closest POI before any scope adjustments are made, and I want to use the photo negative shim as much as possible before using the scopes adjustments.Wish me luck!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 07:59
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Here's the results Big GrinBig Grin
Note that all results were taken with absolutely NO adjustment clicks were made to the scope during this zeroing session, and the range was 25 meters for all 6 groupings.

1st grouping: droop compensating mount with silencer
4" low and 1" to the left - MASSIVE difference from yesterday!

2nd grouping: droop compensating mount without silencer
1" low

3rd grouping: standard mount with silencer
6" low

4th grouping: standard mount without silencer
3" low

conclusions so far; my rifle definately has barrel droop to quite a high degree, and my silener drops my POI by 3 inches which is normal. SO far so good, then!

5th grouping: droop compensating mount with 3 layers of photo negative rear shimming with silencer
BULLSEYE - absolutely perfect correlation between POA and POI, zero has been achieved!

6th grouping: droop compensating mount with 3 layers of photo negative rear shimming withOUT silencer
3" high, so very nice reliable repeatability with silencer on and off - good stuff.



Finally the scope is zeroed nicely and without the need to adjust it at all, but the real test of it will be whether or not the scope has held it's zero over tonight and will be on target tomorrow when I go to test again. This is something the scope could never do before it got strengthened by Leupold, so I'm very nervous to find out if the duel erector spring system they installed has helped at all!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 12:38
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Originally posted by Novusordo Novusordo wrote:

Ok tried the rotating scope trick and the reticle x hair kept on point all the way through a full 360 rotation so I now know for sure that the scope is 100% mechanically centered and I'm now just waiting for first light to have a go at zeroing. I'm bringing my other mount along with some photo negative. I want to use the mount that gives me the closest POI before any scope adjustments are made, and I want to use the photo negative shim as much as possible before using the scopes adjustments.Wish me luck!


Just wondering how do you hold your scope when you rotate it? And why use photo negatives as a shim when you could just do adjustments with the elevation and windage knobs?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 12:56
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I am with you Sparky, this thread has me a little confused.

I have been thinking of the rotating scope thing, and it would be tough to do without the scope pointed at a target at the same range as the parallax setting, I would think.

I would much rather have the scope adjusted a little off mechanical zero than shim a base.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 16:03
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The only way to get mechanical zero is to count the total clicks and count back by 1/2 of the clicks. This is mechanical. Break that mirror it is causing you to much confusion Whacko. This will not sight the scope only put it to mechanical zero. You then fire the rifle at a known distance and dial to your point of impact. Mirrors will have you seeing double.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2012 at 17:48
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by Novusordo Novusordo wrote:

Ok tried the rotating scope trick and the reticle x hair kept on point all the way through a full 360 rotation so I now know for sure that the scope is 100% mechanically centered and I'm now just waiting for first light to have a go at zeroing. I'm bringing my other mount along with some photo negative. I want to use the mount that gives me the closest POI before any scope adjustments are made, and I want to use the photo negative shim as much as possible before using the scopes adjustments.Wish me luck!


Just wondering how do you hold your scope when you rotate it? And why use photo negatives as a shim when you could just do adjustments with the elevation and windage knobs?


I should of calrified better. You place the scope on to a sturdy wooden box with V's cut in two sides to allow the scope to sit in to it then place an object where the crosshairs are pointing at, then rotate the scope slowly a full 360 degrees and check if the crosshair remains on the object. If it does, the scope is truly mechanically centered, if it does not, then you must fine tune the turrets.

And the reason I'd rather shim than adjust for 3 inches of elevation is to keep the erector system in the strongest and most stable position possible, which is very important when on top of a high powered springer like a HW80 (beeman R1). I read shimming scopes on one piece mounts is just fine, but on two piece mounts you risk tube crimp. Anyone know if this is true?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2012 at 17:58
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I'm releived to report than my set up is finally holding it's zero and performing very nicely thanks to Steve Pope of v-mach and Caroline karey of Leupold. After 2 years I'm now happy with everything!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2012 at 18:17
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Depends how much you shim the scope - one could damage the scope with two piece mounts when shimming the mount if there was much difference.  Also negatives will compress over time use cut pieces of an aluminum pop can or aluminum foil.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2012 at 21:37
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This one of the reasons I pay someone to do all of this tedious work for me.
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