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Cooper?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 14:56
ccoker View Drop Down
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Toying with the idea of a Cooper in Classic in 7mm08 with the 22" barrel

Never had nor fondled one even..
Love old Sakos but am interested in a 7-08 and the Cooper has my interest peaked

Thought about a Kimber but I just hear way too many accuracy issues
My expectations of a gun over 1K is it should be easy to find a factory load that does 1" and able to get .5 with careful handloading.

Thoughts
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 14:57
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go for itBig Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 15:34
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I have 2 Coopers that you're welcome to shoot if you happen to be up this way anytime.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 15:36
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Thanks Ted...
much appreciated
If you get into Cen Tex any time soon, I got a place to go for us

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 15:43
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Mine aren't hunting sporters, though.  They are varmint rifles in 6PPC and .223.

BTW, I tried to respond to your PM questions on the Kimber, but your inbox is full.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 16:24
ccoker View Drop Down
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ah
thanks
will clean out
the Cooper has my interest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 17:55
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Never had accuracy problems with kimbers, but last tactical had trigger and extraction problems. Love to have a classic but have only worked with the Phoenix 6.5x284. Under an 1" shouldn't be a problem. Here are some 5 shot minute of pick up hoods groups, left target flyer was a sighter. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 18:14
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Cooper makes their rifles right down the road from me.  They won't let one leave the shop that won't shoot to your expectations.  They are oh-so-nice.  If I didn't spend so much on optics, I would have one by now.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 18:20
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I  was at the Harrisburg Outdoorsman Show Monday and a dealer (Hendershots) had over a dozen Coopers on display and it was painful. Custom Classic's and Western Classic's sporting every option with wood upgrades that were enough to make a grown man cry.

Edited by Roy Finn - February/09/2011 at 18:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 18:32
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Speaking of which, Roy, your Cooper 57M Custom Classic is eye wateringly beautiful as well!Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 19:27
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Thanks. It is really nice. Some of the ones they had on display were pushing 5 G's with the wood options they had at the show. No engraving so I'm assuming the "exhibition" wood box was checked along with skeletonized butt plates with bordered checkering, skeletonized steel grip caps with bordered checkering, case coloring, flush swivels and checked bolt handles. They made the Dakotas there seem plain.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 21:56
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I have one of the varmiter's in 223, it will shoot 1/3 of an inch at 100 if I do my job.  Great guns, I love their wood stocks, the synthetic are functional, but not very visually appealing.  All of their guns have a guarantee, if you load carefully I think .5 at a hundred would be easy to achieve.
 
If you get to MT, tour their plant.  if you are ordering you can pick the stock blank and everything.  Its a lot of fun (but gets expensive) taking a walk through because its hard not to make a purchase.  I enjoy watching the engraver's too, he does a lot of stuff freehand and it looks great.
 
I guess what I'm saying is order one, I doubt you will be disappointed. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2011 at 23:18
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Beautiful and accurate rifles!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 08:26
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someday im going to have one. they just came out with the new model 56 magnum series. im into thatThunbs Up too bad its going to cost me $3k for a classic.Shocked they make some of the most kick ass rifles for sureCool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 09:50
cbm View Drop Down
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I seem to be the odd ball with my Cooper. I have a Excalibur .30-06 that has been back twice and needs to go back again.

Mine has been plagued with extraction issues,magazine fitment issues, shot terrible from the factory, has trigger issues, and misfired on me this season. The finish is also extremely easy to scratch or rub off.
 
The first time I sent it back they recrowned the barrel, replaced the extractor,and changed magazines out.
 
Second time they adjusted the trigger from over 5# to 2 3/4# (it's now pulling around 3.5# and I have only shot about 15 rounds out of it since they adjusted it). They replaced the magazine release to a coil spring set up from a piece of springed steel. With the trigger finally adjusted I could now easily shoot 1/2" MOA groups out of a lead sled with virtually all ammo I tried. But it still has extraction issues with loading one shell at a time or on the last shell in the magazine.
 
This season I didn't hunt much and the one time I shot at a deer the firing pin barely hit the primer resulting in a missfire and a blown opportunity. Could have been the shell I guess but I don't have much confidence in this rifle anymore(feel like it's a POS). I am going to send it back again to have the extractor checked out "again" and the trigger set back to 2.5# again (if they can get it). And I will still know that anytime I take it out in the deer woods or ride it in a padded gun holder on a bad boy buggy that the finish will end up blemished for sure.
 
I will say again though..........after all of the above........it does shoot "now" ! I am sure a better shot than myself could probably get some one hole groups with it. But I wish I would have bought a different rifle.......built a custom one or something !
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 09:55
pyro6999 View Drop Down
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one question for you, do you reload or shoot factory ammo??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 10:14
ccoker View Drop Down
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I am interested in the standard grade wood stock model 54
Don't need bells and whistles or a pink bow on it..

Just want a shooter..
If the gun is capable of .5 or better, I can wring it out



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 10:47
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Cooper makes one fine rifle and for the price, despite what sounds high is a bargain.  Now when you get to the pricier models you have to pay for those extras like any other maker.  As for the problem gun, that can happen with any maker and while they do not do the true oil finish with a pad, oil and wax (not meaning true oil as in Birchwood Casey), as manufactures often claim and is almost never done on any wood today, it is done in a traditional manner from what I have read and will be more delicate than a lot of spray on finishes and does not suprise me.  But, as Roy Weatherby said, his rifles and I guess others were made to hunt with and not put in a safe.  Does not mean you have to tear them up, but use them like a tool and tidy up the finish when you get home and forget about it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 11:17
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No production rifle uses a traditional linseed oil finish anymore, simply because you can get the same look with more durable formulations that protect the wood from moisture better.  Cooper doesn't use a spray-on finish.  They use a modified tung oil formulation made by Deft (called "Step Saver," neutral base) as their finish.  This is a common finish that is also used by many custom gun stock makers.  It's an oil finish, just with improved chemistry vs. the traditional oils of old.  I've talked to their stock finishing supervisor about this when I was repairing some dings on one of my Cooper stocks and wanted to make sure I was using a compatible finish.  They do indeed hand rub the finish, fill the pores, and use the wet sand method. 
 
Incidentally, the Excalibur model cbm has is a synthetic stocked rifle, so it isn't oil finished anyway.  Most likely, it has a Polane finish.


Edited by RifleDude - February/10/2011 at 11:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 11:50
cbm View Drop Down
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Yeh, Mine is a synthetic stock. The finish I am referring to is the matte black finish on the metal. Most of my guns look brand new and they have been handled and hunted with way more than the Cooper. I take care of my stuff but the Cooper finish is very delicate compared to anything I have ever owned. My XCR Compact tactical is like a tank compared with this finish.........but the Cooper is delicate compared to just a regular blued finish on any of my other rifles. If I ever get to where I like this rifle, I will probably send it somewhere to get Cerakote or Gunkote or similar finish.  
 
Load wise.............I don't reload. My mis-fire was with a Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertip 168 factory load.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 11:57
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i would be interested to see what some hand loads would print in that rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 12:08
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Originally posted by cbm cbm wrote:

The finish I am referring to is the matte black finish on the metal. Most of my guns look brand new and they have been handled and hunted with way more than the Cooper. I take care of my stuff but the Cooper finish is very delicate compared to anything I have ever owned. My XCR Compact tactical is like a tank compared with this finish.........
 
There is almost nothing more durable than the finish on an XCR, as that's a titanium nitride vapor deposition finish.  Rem calls it "Trynite," but variations of the same have been used on other guns, as well as a multitude of other products including cutting tools.  You can't compare that to any traditional gun metal finish, even Cerakote.  It is extremely hard and durable, but costly to apply.
 
The matte black finish on a Cooper is simply grit blasted then blued, no more, no less.  It's the same matte black bluing as on any other matte blued rifle, except that they use a very fine grit for their blast metal prep prior to bluing.  It isn't particularly durable, but it's no more or less durable than other guns with a traditional matte blue job.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 12:40
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I did not mean to imply that it should be as good as the XCR but just saying the XCR is "that" much better............I mean like leaps and bounds better.

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 12:49
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It is indeed, as well it should be, since it adds probably $200 to the price of the rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 14:16
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

No production rifle uses a traditional linseed oil finish anymore, simply because you can get the same look with more durable formulations that protect the wood from moisture better.  Cooper doesn't use a spray-on finish.  They use a modified tung oil formulation made by Deft (called "Step Saver," neutral base) as their finish.  This is a common finish that is also used by many custom gun stock makers.  It's an oil finish, just with improved chemistry vs. the traditional oils of old.  I've talked to their stock finishing supervisor about this when I was repairing some dings on one of my Cooper stocks and wanted to make sure I was using a compatible finish.  They do indeed hand rub the finish, fill the pores, and use the wet sand method. 
 
Incidentally, the Excalibur model cbm has is a synthetic stocked rifle, so it isn't oil finished anyway.  Most likely, it has a Polane finish.

True hand rubbed oil finishes of yester-year were composed of any variety of oils and combinations of wax, beeswax not to infrequently and rubbed et nauseum into the wood.  Commonly a small pad was employed much like that of a french polish, but not necessarily as a retaining resevoir where the shellac and solvent reside.  But, different woodworkers had their way of doing things.  Older styles of resins such as plant resins were traditionally reserved for musical instruments, but did find there way into oil finishes for rifle stocks to provide more durability.  These are the traditional oil finishes that I am referring to and can be taken to an extreme gloss.  I am sorry if you misunderstood me, I did not mean to say Cooper uses a spray on finish, which by the way some custom gunmakers do use and there is really nothing wrong with.  A spray on urethane that is finished with a fine sanding to seal the stock followed by a wiping varnish or true oil (the birchwood casey product) is a simple way to do a stock with excellent results.  The main point I was making is that Cooper makes a fine rifle with a fine finish and that the problems that poster was having can happen to any maker's rifle.

Deft step saver by the way is a stain and finish and contains urethane.  Today a more traditional oil finish would contain one third mineral spirits, one third tung oil (or BSO, actually oxygenated raw linseed oil) and one third varnish.  Preperations like Formby's Tung Oil finish and Waterlox etc. contain some tung oil of which an unknown portions exists freely and crossliked with the resin and are considered a wiping varnish.  Deft step saver would fall under the same category.  Formby's uses alkyd as a resin, Waterlox a phenol and Deft uses urethane.  All are oil based.  Main difference is, the Deft has stain in it. They do make Deftoil which does not contain stain, but is otherwise the same.  I believe if I remember correctly the government classifies these as conjugated oil varnishes.

I do a lot of finishing. 

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