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Conquest vs. Swarovski, Kahles

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2004 at 10:21
tbone1 View Drop Down
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I am looking to purchase a scope and have narrowed it down to a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44, Swarovski A line 3.5-10x42, and Kahles AH 3-9x42.  I am willing to spend the extra money for the Kahles or the Swarovski but only if they are really worth it.  I have been having trouble making up my mind.  Yesterday, I stopped in a store that had the Zeiss and Swarovski (didn't have Kahles) and I was able to take the scopes outside for about 15 minutes or so.  It was just before 6:00 pm so I still had decent light.  I tried to see which one was better and I really couldn't tell a difference.  At the low powers the Zeiss seemed to be a hair bit clearer but the little difference went away as I turned the power up.  I can easily tell a difference optically when comparing binoculars of similar quality, I guess maybe I have more experience with them and know what to look for, but have trouble with riflescopes.  Has anyone else compared them?

 

The Zeiss has been very impressive every time that I have compared it.  Chris, I noticed you have a Swarovski A-line.  Is it noticable better than the Zeiss and is it worth the extra money.  I noticed some on the samplelist that have the bullet drop recticle for $719.00.  Is that the TDS.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2004 at 17:26
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you answered your own question. to your eyes, there was no difference, in fact you said you liked the zeiss a little better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2004 at 18:04
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I guess I like to get multiple opinions, especially from people who own or have used a particular scope.  To me a few in the store comparisons is not always a fair look at something.  I try to give every scope a chance.  For example, a year or two ago I compared binos in the store and decided on a particular pair because they appeared to have good optics.  I then ordered them from SWFA but never really was satisfied with them.  In the field, the optics didn't perform as well as I had hoped.  The more opinions the better.  Thanks Sako75 for the reply. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2004 at 20:17
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i had a conquest it was awesome. never looked thru a swaro av

the conquest has an etched reticle these are not only more durable than wire, they also dont change color when the light reflects off it. Etched reticles cost more. i asked leupold why the new vx-3's didnt have them and they said probably cost. to me the swaro should have it considering the cost. optically, it is close, in fact i called swfa with this same question once and i dont know who i spoke with but his answer was conquest. he said he has never had a conquest come back but couldnt say htat about the swaro

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 01:40
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Thanks Sako75 for the reply.  The more I hear about the conquest, the more I like it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 14:00
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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The Swarovski is brighter in low light hunting situations.  The Conquest does not use the top of the line AOS glass or T* coatings like the VMV.  The Conquest is between a VX-III and a Swarovski 1".  I like the 4-12x50 TDS because to me that power range and objective size are perfect for the type of hunting I do and I love having the bullet drop feature built into the reticle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 18:10
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The Conquest is every bit the quality that the Saworvski AH and Kahles.

I stopped at the gun shop about two weeks ago and compared them.

With all but 1/4 of the lights in the store turned off at closing time. We had only the light in the store room and the and at the register on.

I looked thru each scope at a full body deer mount in the far corner of the store with each riflescope.

Each time the conquest was the winner clarity, resolution and overall brightness.

I asked my brother in law who is not an avid hunter and is not exposed to all the product hype out there what he thought when comparing these scopes.

Right of he said this one is brighter and the deer is better defined. The hair color was more apparent to him with the Ziess.

Another man who was purchasing a shotgun did the same comparison with us and he said he picked the Ziess conquest.

We all agreed that the difference was small but the same.

Then for a better test we stepped outside and compared them again with a road sign 300 yards away and none of us could tell the difference.

We checked all the riflescopes at  5 power and we checked to make sure the eyepiece was adjusted properly.

The salesman closing the store said his friends did the same comparison of scopes last year in west Texas and they all preffered the Conquest.

He said the only time the T* helps is when it is dark and only the moonlight is out. The SOS glass is the same glass as the conquest just cut different because of the tube dimensions and spacing in the rilfe scope. Conquest uses the same glass and coatings as the Z/MZ series.

Saworvski and Kahles both get their glass from schott glass works in germany ( same place ziess gets glass ).

For the money and performance the Ziess Conquest is hard to beat.

Scopes Tested: Zeiss conquest 3.5 - 10 X 44

                        Kahles 3 -9 X 42

                        Saworvski 3 - 10 X 42

                        Nikon 3 - 9 X 40 which ranked last in our opinions.

 

 

Hope this helps.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 18:45
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chris-

 

you gotta admit that swarovski should have added etched reticle instead of wire to the av line scopes! i couldnt believe for those price they were using wire!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 18:51
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schott glass is actually made in the USA, pennsylvania I think. there might be more than 1 schoo glass factory where zeiss and swaro get glass, for some weird reason i am thinking zeiss owns it! Yes swarovski confirmed this when i called htem and asked. they said the ybuy the hioghest grade. AS for the conquest it does not use the same quality glass or coatings as the v series. the zm/z series is long gone! I compared swarovski, S&B and a conquest in the dark and although the more expensive 2 were better, it was had me wondering why they cost so much more.

the answer to that was not only in the glass but construction, 1st focal plane reticle and 30mm tube.

FYI S&B is the only company in control of their own glass. they bought an optics company in hungary some years ago and have been in charge of their own glass since then.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 19:12
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I don't know anything about Pennsylvania (probably U.S. business offices), but the Schott glass works is owned by Zeiss and located in Germany.  Zeiss is also very much in charge of their own glass since they own the Schott works.  I don't know of a Hungarian glass company and I used to spend a good bit of time in Hungary (Zwack Unicom).  Doesn't mean that one does not exist, but I have never heard of it.  I have toured the German and Czech glass factories and I believe Meopta owns their own glass works.  Quite frankly I would not think that it would be worthwhile for a company the size of S&B to buy a glass company.  It is not like there is a world shortage.   

 

ranburr



Edited by ranburr
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 20:24
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www.schmidtbender.com

 

Another 100 people work in the subsidiary of Schmidt & Bender Hungaria Optikai Kft. In Budapest, which has existed since 1992.

This company developed from the former state- owned
enterprise of MOM, Budapest, which had already been
an important supplier of optics 15 years before it
was taken over by Schmidt & Bender. In addition to plane

and spherical optical components, fibre optics
elements of excellent quality are produced here, too.

 

www.newengalndcustomgun.com

 

Schmidt & Bender starts with a more expensive camera quality glass, which they then grind and polish to the industries highest standards at their lens facility in Hungary.

 

www.usoptics.com

download intro catalog

page 11

SCHOTT GLASS MADE IN USA FACTORY
DURYEA, PENNSYLVANIA

not all schott glass made their but some is

 

so there it is some, not all, schott glass is made in the USA and yes S&B produces, grinds, and polishes their own glass in hungary

 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 20:41
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Z/ZM Scopes and conquest 3 -12 X 56 30mm are the exact same design.

Conquest are now assembled in the US and the German Z/ZM is discontinued and replaced by the V/VM series.

Conquest 1 inch scopes ( 3.5 - 10 & 4.5,6.5 - 50 AO )

are the Technology used in V/VM series in 1 inch tubes.

With the exception of the  3 - 9 X 40 Conquest.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2004 at 21:30
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Interesting.  I am still not sure why S&B would want a Hungarian glass company.  Hungarian industry is not exactly known for high quality work.  I am sure they probably got the factory at a bargain price and the Hungarian govt. probably helped out with the cost.  But, it would still be cheaper to just buy glass from a quality provider.  I guess they have their reasons.  Never heard of the Pennsylvania Schott facility before today.  Don't get me wrong, I think S&B makes great products and are in the top 3-5 scope makers.  I do think that their products are overpriced and I think that they are overkill size wise for most hunting rifles.  Where the tactical arena is concerned they are better suited and one of the best. 

 

ranburr



Edited by ranburr
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2004 at 12:19
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ercjr2001,

 

"We checked all the riflescopes at  5 power"

"Scopes Tested: Zeiss conquest 3.5 - 10 X 44

                        Kahles 3 -9 X 42

                        Saworvski 3 - 10 X 42"

 

If you are comparing scopes for brightness you must compare them while they are producing the same size exit pupil. 

 

"He said the only time the T* helps is when it is dark and only the moonlight is out."     He is very wrong.

 

"The SOS glass is the same glass as the conquest just cut different because of the tube dimensions and spacing in the rifle scope. Conquest uses the same glass and coatings as the Z/MZ series."   This contradicts itself.  You claim the Conquest used the same glass as the VMV, then claim the Conquest uses the same glass and coatings as the ZMZ.   Conquest uses MC coatings and different glass than the VMV.  The only similarity is that they are both lead and arsenic free which all optics glass will have to be soon.  There is a 2% difference in light transmission between MC coatings and T* coatings (PER LENS SURFACE).  This is huge.  I think the V also uses one less lens which would also make it brighter.  The VMV uses the new AOS optical system and the "Thin Lens Technology" which allowed them to achieve a 35% increase in field of view over the ZMZ, 12% more eye relief and 30% less weight.  If you compare the ZMZ 3-12x56 to the VMV 3-12x56, the VMV is half a pound lighter and two inches shorter.  The VMV also use a 3 rail system to slide the erector tube in its variable scopes.  Only the rails gets greased instead of the whole tube, this makes a big difference as well in light transmission because it cuts down on internal reflection.

 

Read this post about Schott Glass Werks.  Schott makes glass for many products other than scopes and binoculars.  The Penn. subsidiary might be a sales office for microscopes, sunglasses or something else.

 

Here is a post by mwyates where he compared the Conquest to a Swarovski in Bass Pro Shops.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2004 at 17:58
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Thanks to everyone who has replied,  I have gotten some great information.  I have a Zeiss VM/V.  I don't expect the Conquest to be as good but, I do want the best scope in that price range.  If I decide on the Conquest, I will compare it to my VM/V and let ya'll know what I think.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 08:57
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One additional thought on comparisons that sometimes will show up: sometimes the factory QA/QC lets improperly constructed optics out (this rarely happens, but it does happen).  I have listened to some "birders" rant (negatively) about their top quality binoculars.  Eventually they had the factory repair the item which was improperly assembled (it was either out of collimation, or an internal lens was reversed?). 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 09:06
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"Conquest 1 inch scopes ( 3.5 - 10 & 4.5,6.5 - 50 AO )

are the Technology used in V/VM series in 1 inch tubes.

With the exception of the  3 - 9 X 40 Conquest."

 

This is wrong information and I just want people that are reading this post to know so that it does not get repeated as the truth.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 15:24
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I have to give one to Sako 75.  I just could not imagine that Schott had a factory here that I had never heard of.  Well, I called them today and it does exist.  They only sell raw glass and some of their customers are optics companies.  If you want anything beyond a sheet of raw glass you have to either deal with Schott in Germany or Zeiss in Germany depending on how refined a product you want.  Optics companies using the U.S. glass need the ability to cut, grind and coat the glass once they receive it (it is not a deal where you drop the lenses into a scope tube).  I say thank you to Sako 75 for teaching me something new.

 

ranburr   

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 15:43
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ranburr

 

i dont know everything, i come here to learn. i have learned from reading your posts as well

thank you

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2004 at 15:10
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Schott facility in Pensylvania was created so that they could qualify their product as "domestic" they bring the equipment and raw product form abroad and melt the glass in Pensyllvania.  They have a lot of US based companies for whom it is easier to deal with a domestic product (especially defense oriented ones).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2004 at 15:14
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That makes sense.  That also explains how USO was able to claim 100% U.S. made craftsmanship and materials.  Burris must also buy from Penn.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2004 at 15:44
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Does Burris grind their own lenses? I've heard that somwhere, but I've also heard people say that they buy their lenses from Japan.  It would be easy for Burris to apply coatings locally: some of the best AR coating companies are located in Colorado.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2004 at 15:49
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All Burris scopes have several features found in only premium optics.

We don't just sell premium optics. The Burris organization is made up of demanding sportsmen that depend on Burris products just like you. We understand the purpose, application, and need-for-dependability of scopes, mounting systems, binoculars and spotting scopes. We start with some of the highest quality glass money can buy for our lenses. Then we grind and polish to perfection. It’s far from the cheapest way to go but one look through a Burris scope or binocular proves we’re doing it right. Our exclusive HiLume multi-chemical multi-coating is applied to both surfaces of every lens in every scope. The result? 99.5% light transmission per lens surface. It doesn’t get any brighter than that. Scopes sometimes have to withstand violent abuse. That’s why Burris outer tubes are stronger than most and why we toughen up a lot of other components as well. Double internal spring force. Every Burris scope has it. All adjustment systems are positive, repeatable, steel-on-steel, with audible clicks. Specially made quad seals eliminate potential leakage problems. Each scope is filled with laboratory grade dry nitrogen to absorb moisture. Then the nitrogen is  purged and refilled. This process is repeated a minimum of 24 times to eliminate every molecule of moisture. Each scope is then sealed for life and warranted forever. Every scope is individually waterproof and fogproof tested. Every rifle and handgun scope is warranted forever.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2004 at 18:55
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I may be wrong. I may not. The info I shared on this site, came out of the mouths of salesman that told me that the Zeiss vender shared the info with them.

 

I looked threw both the conquest and the V/VM  and did not see the a 2% 5% 10% increase in light transmission.

I did see that at low power the conquest was brighter and had better resolution than the AH.

I believed what I was told because I could not see a difference between these scopes at 30 minutes after sunset.

 

Conquest does use the the thin etched glass reticle.

After the the S & B debate i am not sure your info is any better than that of the other salesman I have talked to in the past.

 

If 95% total transmission is the max Per Bushnell and Nikon then how can the V/VM be any brighter.

We ask questions on these forums because we are tired of marketing gimmicks and story telling salesman.

Chris I know you have compared everything that has come threw your shop. You and I know that the reason the Ziess appears brighter in late evening is because Zeiss uses the blue spectrum coatings.

Kahles and Swaro use coatings that inhance yellow, green and brown in low light.

If I am wrong then prove it.

Not by quoting reterick off a manufactures brochure.

Take a study of lets say 20 diff people and compare scopes of same magnification and size.

Cover the labels and let the public be the judge.

Compare Nikon, Bushnell, Burris, Leupold, Zeiss, Kahles, etc.

Then post your results.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2004 at 19:01
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P.S. I didnot contradict myself. The Conquest 3 - 12 X 56, 30 mm tube scope is the same as the 3 - 12 X 56 Z/ZM made in Germany.

 

Slow down a bit and read. It may help your comprehension.

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