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supertool73 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2016 at 17:15
Problem with Raid1 on desktop computers is often time the built in Raid controller is not reliable.  One of the hard drives will drop off and most of them don't have a way to rebuilt the array easily.  Can be a real pain in the rear.  Also depending upon Raid as a backup is a mistake.  It is a redundancy not a backup.  The point of Raid is so that if you loose a drive you machine can keep working til you can fix it so your users don't go offline.  I have seen whole arrays just fail completely with total data loss. 

Using storage spaces in Windows 8.1 and 10 is a really neat tool that is very reliable and much easier than setting up a raid array in the bios.  For home PCs and home servers it is an great reliable and inexpensive way to set up redundancy.  For enterprise use, I would spend the money for a enterprise raid controller. 

I have two Server 2012 boxes at home that I am using Storage spaces on.  One of them has a mirroring array with 10 hard drive that is 20 tbs.  the other is a single parity array with 20 tbs.  Both of them have been running for over 1.5 years 24/7 and I have not had a single problem yet.  Every single desktop motherboard array I have built has dropped a hard drive at some point and I have not been able to get it working again, even though the HD tests fine.  And I have probably done 20+ of them.  I have built a dozen or so enterpise arrays and when a drive drops out it can easily be replaces and the array will rebuilt itself


On the subject of Seagate drives suck, that is not really accurate.  I have literally used 100s of both Seagate and western digital drives.  Truth be told I have seen a higher failure rate with WDs than Seagates, and in my experience the Seagate perform a little better overall.  We had a server that ran 24/7 for 7 years with two 10,000 seagates in a raid 1.  They were still working fine when we took it out of service.  I have 18 seagate 3 and 4 tb drives in my two servers running for over 1.5 years and have not had one of them fail yet.  And they are just desktop drives.  I keep expecting it to happen anytime, but so far so good. 

They are all going to fail.  But both brands make great drives.  Now I use Seagates pretty much exclusively and have no regrets.  

Back to external drive.  It is just not the best way to go, if you can put the drives in your case you will be much better off both performance wise and reliability wise.  But the comment about Dells and other proprietary systems not allowing expansion is true.  That is why you woudl be better off buying from a local computer shop that can build you a PC that is expandable and customizable. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfortyfive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2016 at 19:19
http://https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-q3-2015/

With an average failure rate around 5% one must plan accordingly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2016 at 20:22
Originally posted by oldfortyfive oldfortyfive wrote:

http://https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-q3-2015/

With an average failure rate around 5% one must plan accordingly.


Thats an awesome article. Thanks for posting it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfortyfive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2016 at 08:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2016 at 09:44
Hmm, I may have to change my opinion of them.  I must have been fortunate, as I have used hundreds of them over the last 10 years and not had very many issues.  I have 8 of the 3 tb ones in a couple surveillance computers right now.  They are 3 or so years old, having data written to them 24/7.  They are probably a different model though, as they are the surveillance designed drives. 

Thanks for the info.  

This kind of stuff is why I backup my important stuff 5 and 6 times.  You just cannot rely upon 1 or 2 backups to be good enough. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfortyfive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2016 at 11:05
And don't keep all your backups in one place. The farther apart the better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sucker76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2016 at 11:09
I'M a big fan of Carbonite for a remote backup.  This isn't my only one but it's definately far from my house.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2016 at 11:51
I am always leary of online backups. They get hacked often and u really have no idea whats happening with your data. But thats just me.

I have a raid 10 2012 server and mirrored NAS in my house. Then I buried a cat 5e wire out to my shed 50 yards from my house where my backup 2012 server is in raid 5. Then i have a wireless bridge to my folks house a few blocks away where i have a mirrored NAS. I am a data protection nut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2016 at 12:25
And here I thought I was high speed with my 3 1/2" floppies.  That is quite the setup.  You are obviously running more than a home PC with that setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2016 at 12:53
I was able to get a bunch of free copies of server 2012 from microsoft from server classes i took. So i built a couple servers for home. I use windows 7 as a dvr for tv shows and we store movies on them and my wife has near a terbyte of pictures. We have computers hooked up to our tvs so we can watch our movie library and tv shows from our 3 tvs.

We dont store data locally on the computers everything in on the server. Plus it gives me a place to practice and train for work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 16:16
Originally posted by oldfortyfive oldfortyfive wrote:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/16/02/01/class.action.suit.launched.today.law.firm.seeks.information.from.owners.132264/


I was just looking at my backup server.  I have 4 of those exact seagate 3 tb drives in it.  Model ST3000DM001-1CH1  So far they are all working just fine.  Been in that server for 1.5 years and they were in another server before this for about 2 years before that.

Then I have 4 of ST4000DM000-1F21 4 tb drives that have been in use the same amount of time also in that same backup server.

That server is used as a backup server for Hyper V replicate.  So it is being written two by 3 virtual servers every 30 seconds.  Plus it hosts my secondary virtual domain controller.  So it is being written and read to often by that server as well.

Strange mine have been so reliable and are used heavily and others are having such a crap time with them.  I honestly wonder if it is not that those backup drives are USB connected.  As I posted earlier, I have seen tons of failures of usb attached drives over the years.  Mine are all connected through a 8 port LSI SAS/Sata controller card.   Or maybe as I posted, I am just very fortunate.

I just got a couple Western Digital Red NAS drive for a Synology NAS device for my boss.  Guess we will see how they work.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 16:27
What did ST say?

Holy c--t!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 16:36
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by oldfortyfive oldfortyfive wrote:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/16/02/01/class.action.suit.launched.today.law.firm.seeks.information.from.owners.132264/


I was just looking at my backup server.  I have 4 of those exact seagate 3 tb drives in it.  Model ST3000DM001-1CH1  So far they are all working just fine.  Been in that server for 1.5 years and they were in another server before this for about 2 years before that.

Then I have 4 of ST4000DM000-1F21 4 tb drives that have been in use the same amount of time also in that same backup server.

That server is used as a backup server for Hyper V replicate.  So it is being written two by 3 virtual servers every 30 seconds.  Plus it hosts my secondary virtual domain controller.  So it is being written and read to often by that server as well.

Strange mine have been so reliable and are used heavily and others are having such a crap time with them.  I honestly wonder if it is not that those backup drives are USB connected.  As I posted earlier, I have seen tons of failures of usb attached drives over the years.  Mine are all connected through a 8 port LSI SAS/Sata controller card.   Or maybe as I posted, I am just very fortunate.

I just got a couple Western Digital Red NAS drive for a Synology NAS device for my boss.  Guess we will see how they work.  

Where I work, we don't get to use USB devices… it is agaiknst regulation… reasons are 1) ease of infiltration, 2) high failure rates.  We cannot attach to any external storage device unless it is periodically chacked and approved by our Cybersecurity personnel.  Not worth the trouble.  Simulation labs use them quite a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 17:21
I have 4 of the ST 3200542AB 2 TB drives mounted it my Blackarmor server. all 4 of the original drives have failed and 2 have failed twice in the last 5 years. 2 failed in the first 3 months. It would be hard for me to use Seagate drives again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 17:24
Damn Lile...I didn't know you spoke that gobbledy-gook too. 

Y'all lost me at hard drives. Bucky
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 17:30
I need help turning my iPad pro on!!!

My pic is old but not older than its owner.😎
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 17:35
Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

I have 4 of the ST 3200542AB 2 TB drives mounted it my Blackarmor server. all 4 of the original drives have failed and 2 have failed twice in the last 5 years. 2 failed in the first 3 months. It would be hard for me to use Seagate drives again.


Well dang, its crazy I am hearing all this.  I have never really looked up failures just always went based on my own usage.

I have 3 Synology brand 2 bay NAS devices on my network.  Two of them are using ST2000VN000-1H3164 2tb seagates, the other has ST1000NC001-1DY1, 1 tb seagate drives in it.  They have all be running 24/7 for nearly 3 years no issues with them either. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 17:37
Wow!!!

I really wish I understood even a particle of that.

Sorry it shows my age and aversion to electronics that have passed me by.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 17:55
NAS is network attached storage device.  You can put 2 physical hard drives in them.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822108189&cm_re=synology-_-22-108-189-_-Product

You plug them into your network router or switch with an Ethernet cable just like you do your computer.  Then they are just used as data storage devices.  You can virtually attach them to your computers so they appear to be a hard drive in the "my computer" or "this PC" window on your computer.  Like your C drive, but you would give it a different letter like G or something. That way you can just drag and drop files to them just like they are on your computer, then you can search or veiw those files in file explorer.  Or you can backup your whole computer to them.

Typically they are set up so the 1 drive mirrors the other in real time.  So there is a constant backup running all the time.  They also have apps for the iphone and androids so you can back your pictures and documents from your phones up to them as well over your wifi connection at your house. 

ALso they can be your own private cloud.  If you set them up correctly you can access your pictures, videos, music, documents etc from anywhere as long as you have an internet connection.  My sister lives in Switzerland.  One of the Synology devices is hers.  She backs up her pictures and her iphone pictures all the way from there to the device in my house every day.  Every times her computer or phone gets on a wifi connection it starts backing up anything new.  

Your can buy NAS devices that hold more hard drives as well.  Synology has some that holds 20 drives.  So you can create some pretty huge and amazing data storage devices. 

The big numbers I keep posting are just the part numbers for the Seagate hard drives. 

Up above where I was talking about servers.  They are just like regular computers (but typically much more powereful) that have a server operating system on them called Windows Server 2012.  They are similar to Windows 8.1 but allow you to install many tasks and roles that are specifically for business use and managing large networks, for data storage, data sharing, printer sharing, backups, and hundreds of other uses.  I have a large number of hard drives in them, they have the hard drives chained together in a sense so it makes a giant hard drive.  Then half of them backup the other half in real time. 

Hope that makes a bit more sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 18:18
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

I have 4 of the ST 3200542AB 2 TB drives mounted it my Blackarmor server. all 4 of the original drives have failed and 2 have failed twice in the last 5 years. 2 failed in the first 3 months. It would be hard for me to use Seagate drives again.


Well dang, its crazy I am hearing all this.  I have never really looked up failures just always went based on my own usage.

I have 3 Synology brand 2 bay NAS devices on my network.  Two of them are using ST2000VN000-1H3164 2tb seagates, the other has ST1000NC001-1DY1, 1 tb seagate drives in it.  They have all be running 24/7 for nearly 3 years no issues with them either. 

My NAS SATA is set up so that drives 1 & 2 are access drives and drives 3 & 4 are just backups of the first two. It will automatically rebuild a replaced damaged drive as long as I don't have 2 failures simultaneously. I wish I never had to learn this stuff. I still have a hard time getting  the server to recognize a  new computer and granting password access to the system.
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