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’Compact’ Scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2004 at 22:16
Bart Simpson View Drop Down
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A little help if you please. I'm looking to put together a compact combo for small stands, tiny ground blinds, or just walking in and sitting at the base of a tree in the swamp. Two rifles under consideration; Ruger Compact or a Marlin 336. Scope parameters would include power ranges, length, weight, and to some extent cost. It should come as no surprise that one scope, albeit a compromise, is the Nikon Gold 1.5-6x42 w/ a #4 reticle. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2004 at 23:08
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If you like Ruger's, then by all means go with the bolt gun. I don't know what you are hunting, so I can't recommend a caliber. As far as the scope is concerned, the Nikon you plan on will sure be bright and good for close cover work, but , it is heavy and not the least costly of the options out there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2004 at 23:26
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Deer and hog. Ruger compact in .308.  I've got a spare monarch 3-9x40 in the closet but was thinking lower power for quicker handling. Shots won't be longer than 100 yards (hope the deer understand this point) and could be poorly lit and in thick cover. Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 00:21
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I have a slight feeling that you have a soft spot for Nikon scopes, so I won't even try to talk you out of your scope choice. If all your shots will be up close and personal, then the Ruger Compact in 308 sounds like a good choice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 00:48
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I am not going to try to talk you out of your scope choice, but I'll try to offer a couple of options.

For a fair bit less money, Burris compact scopes are very nice.  Their 2-7x and 4x compacts are bright and reliable.  If you with a Marlin, you can set it up with a scout scope and put either a Burris 2.75x or a Leupold 2.5x scope.  For speed of target acquisition, I think it is hard to beat a handy levergun with a scout scope.  I don't know if I'd want to put a fairly sizable scope like Monarch Gold on a light rifle.  That can seriously affect it's handling.  I'd probably be inclined to use a small and light scope with plenty of eye relief.

Other good choices are Burris Signature Safari 1.5-5x32  and Leupold VXIII 1.5-5x20 and 1.75-6x32.  All three are smaller and lighter than the Nikon.  And Leupold 1.5-5x20 is downright tiny, similar in size to Burris compacts. 

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 10:56
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i have a 336c in 35 remington with the XS scope mount, and the leupold 2.5x IER, and i love it. very fast handling gun, i would highly recommend that setup. as for the ruger compact, first of all, i wouldnt buy it, becuase its a ruger. but as for a scope for a gun "like it" i would get a 4200.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 12:58
Bart Simpson View Drop Down
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Thanks Cory, that's the type feedback I was looking for. I've shot a similar setup in a Guide Gun and thought favorably of it. Somehow, even with all our technology, it feels good to carry a lever into the woods. I sold my 336 w/ 1.75-4x32 Bushnell brush reticle after last season and kinda miss that familiar feel. Thanks again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 13:53
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you gotta have the about 9" of eye relief with my setup though. just to let you know. i love carrying my 336c in the woods, but thats the only place it gets carried. very suprising though is that with remingotns factory loaded 200gr CL's i prints about 1-1/2" and 100, very good accuracy for a cranker.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 15:38
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Cory,

What's wrong with ruger guns?  I do not own any, but I always thought they were well made.

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 15:42
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i have never owned one either, and NEVER will. as far as ive heard form too many people, they are peices of crap. ill take a savage first. the only bolt gun ill ever pay for is a remington, ill consider browning, CZ, and a few others, but NEVER a ruger. they have major qaulity issues.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 15:44
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hmmmm.... im sure that post will get soem crap thrown at it, but hey, its my opinion.  koshkin, you are a good man to not own any

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 16:01
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Interesting. I've seen a lot of Savage haters, but you are a first ruger hater I know.
I do own a savage (12FV in 22-250 w/Accutrigger), and I am extremely happy with it.  Interestingly, I am not a big fan of remington bolt guns.  I've had exposure to a couple that would not shoot well without some work.  The opinion of a lot of people I've talked to is that Remington is great for building a custom gun, but for out of the box accuracy, it is best to look elsewhere.  My Savage shoots well will almost anything thrown at it.  Same goes for a couple of Tikkas I have: shoot great with no tinkering.  A friend has a CZ550 in 308 and I am very impressed with it as well.  I have little experience with Winchester and Browning guns, and for some reason I do not like Howa's.
I was thinking of purchasing a ruger wheelgun.  Now, i suppose I'll need to do some research on ruger's quality issues.
Generally, I like to tinker with old milurplus guns.  When I buy something modern I expect it to function flawlessly and shoot accurately with minimum of work (trigger tuning and free-floating at the most).  As a result, the only Remington I currently own (and chances are it'll stay that way) is an 870 Express shotgun.

Ilya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 16:09
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yeah, as is with every gun, you can get some fualtr remingtons, and some models mroe than others, but ive never had trouble with any of mine, but have heard cases of it. the savage varmint rifles liek you have, will outshoot alot of remingtons. i hate to admit this, but i have been considering a BVSS jsut to see what all the stink is about. but i absolutely despize (spelling?) ruger. an i will never buy a winchester jsut becuase i dont liek the name, and design, although i love winchester ammo, so nothing wrong with the guns. the ruger wheelguns are ok, but i wont buy one becuase of the name stamped on it. check out a S&W, they have been around for a LOOOONNNNNNGG time, and know there stuff. there cylinders arent the best in the world, but as long as you dont load too hot, you wont have to worry about them. freedom arms is another great company, but again, i dont like the design. CZ, and tikka rifles ROCK, not liek remingtons though. i jsut favor big green though.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 17:09
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Old Rugers=Great.  New Rugers=Crap.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 17:33
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got another person that agrees with me.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2004 at 23:15
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Bart -

 

FWIW I have a 1.5x6x42 Gold on a 45/70 Ruger #1 that I am very happy with. The quality of the rifle hasn't been an issue in the near two years I've had it, but only hard use will tell.

 

My only experience with a "compact" is a Rem Model 7 SS in .260 wearing a Vari-X II 1.75-6x32 which has been the most accurate out-of-the-box rifle I've every owned. My wife shot a three hole cloverleaf - all holes touching - at 100 yds with the first three shots fired during initial sight in, using factory ammo (125 partition Rem Premier). My jaw dropped. I'm sure it was just luck that we picked that load to try first and that there are many more loads out there that the rifle won't like as well. I don't remember why we were using that load "to get on the paper" with the newly mounted scope since there are cheaper alternatives - probably since there isn't a lot of choice with the .260 and many stores don't carry it all. Note that we haven't spent much time trying other combinations - I keep asking my self why? :-)

 

Good luck in da swamp!

 

sling

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2004 at 00:13
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Hey Koshkin, now you know another Ruger hater- ME. The only Ruger that I have seen that was very accurate out of the box was a friend of mind's 280. The Ruger has a strong action and ring mount design, but, as far as I'm concerned that's where it stops for me. Before Ruger made their own barrels, they had a bad reputation in the accuracy department. They out sourced for barrels from many different manufactures which gave them little to no control over quality. Now that they make their own, you roll the dice and hope for the best. As much as I hate the looks of Savage rifles, I will give credit where credit is due. They are, on average, very good shooters. I am a Remington man. When you look at the overall package, fit, finish, quality and accuracy, they are a VERY tough act to follow. As stated earlier, the 700 action is THE number one choice of accuracy gunsmith's. WHY? Because they require very little " work" if any to make them shoot. On a final note have you ever looked at the HS Precision 2000 action or Ed Brown's 702? They are based on the 700 design with tighter tolerances which for a hunting rifle is not always a good thing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2004 at 01:27
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I was under an impression that Ruger barrels have improved once they started making them themselves.  I guess I was wrong.  Anyhow, I have no problem staying away from Ruger rifles since I've had great luck with Tikka, Savage, and CZ.  As for a tough act to follow: I have a Tikka model 695 in 280 Rem.  Dead stock, nothing done to it.  I was shooting fairly consistently 0.5 to 1.0 inch groups out of it.  Occasionally though it was giving basically one hole groups at 100 yards.  I figured I should check something out: a different shooter.  I grew up in Soviet Union and I never had a chance to even touch a gun until I came to America (dictatorships are like that).  In the meantime, I've managed to screw up my hands a bit.  It takes all of my concentration to shoot as well as I do, and I'll never shoot better than that.  So I ask a guy at the range to shoot a few groups out of my gun since he seemed like a pretty good shot.  He fires four groups, and all come in between 0.2 and 0.4 inches.  Inspired by that, I got my hands onto a Tikka 595 sporter in 308: it shoots in about the same way.  Both rifles are beatifully finished and have smoother bolts than any Remington I've ever tried.  I wish they were made in America.  Given a choice I like to buy domestic products. 

As for Savage, I have no problem with the way it looks.  It is a little rough as far as finish and bolt travel go.  However, the bolt does not bind.  The trigger is great, and the accuracy is great as well.  I havn't had a really good shot shoot some groups out of it yet, but I shoot about as well out of it as I do out of my Tikka.  It is probably safe to assume that the rifle is more accurate than I am.  I bought a plane 12FV with a tupperware stock.   I think I'll get some nice laminate stock for it from Boyds or Richard Microfit.

On revolvers, I considered gettin a S&W wheel gun in 45ACP, but the grip  does not fit my hand.  I can buy it and search for replacement grips that work for me, I suppose, but I am a firm believer that modern guns are supposed to  work as is, and out of the box.  Ruger GP100 fits my hand like a glove, and I think I'll go with it.

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2004 at 15:14
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Agree the Burris compacts great choices. Can't agree too much on the Ruger issue - have several Remingtons and a bunch of Rugers including an out of the box 338 I'll shoot for money with any day. Heard about the bad barrel issue but have not personally seen it - I've got a matching pair of 7x57 old style 77's that have been 7/8 inch or so guns with handloaded ballistic tips since the year we bought them.....around 1990 or so. Recently purchased a 416 Rigby Ruger and it'll shoot near an inch all day long if I can hold it that good. Maybe I've just been lucky but let me relate a Ruger story...........

I bought a 458 Win Mag Ruger 77 action - no stock - just the action. Cleaned it up and put in a call to Ruger and ordered a stock - lady understood the rifle was to ultimately be transferred to ownership of a special friend and went out of her way to select a very very nice piece of wood. I fitted the stock up - why glass bed right - looked pretty close. Third shot the stock broke into three or four equal sized pieces - best I could tell the barrel mounted recoil lug did not have enough clearance and was bearing on the wood. I was so excited I just really bolted it up and went to the bench.

Ashamed - I called Ruger to order another stock and they offered to fit it up if I would send the barrelled action. Less than 10 days later the rifle was returned - no charge - with an even nicer piece of wood. I had a similar experience when I wanted some spare parts for a British Columbia hunt - safety connector - firing pin spring - firing pin etc. no charge. Never needed it but nice to have it.

I've owned and shot Remingtons, Brownings, Winchesters, Steyrs, Weatherbys, Rugers and a bunch of M98 actioned rifles. I'm not an authority or any sort of expert - just an old shooter -- but my experience says that little Ruger compact with a 4x Burris will shoot every bit as good as any other out of the box factory rifle of comparable cost - and they are fine folks to have backing you as well.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2004 at 15:44
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Well, this is certainly a different point of view. 

I have to say that a compact Ruger boltgun with that pencil thin barrel and a 4x Burris compact would make a very handy combination: 35" or so in length and ~6.5lbs with scope and rings. That's probably the ultimate carbine you can find these days (other than that Steyr scout).  With a barrel that thin I'd probably go with a 260Rem rather than a 308 though.

 

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2004 at 17:00
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My experience with Ruger customer service is not so hot.  Years ago I purchased a Ruger Redhawk .357 magnum (yes .357).  With the sixth shot out of the new gun and using factory loaded winchester 158 grain hollowpoints, the barrel flew about 15 ft. down range.  A visual inspection showed a tiny new break where the barrel and fram met and it appeared that in that area their had been a very large air pocket formed during the casting phase.  I sent the pistol back to Ruger.  I asked for a new gun because this one only had six rounds through it and blew up.  To make a long story short, I never could get anyone to return my calls and about 4 months after the fact the same Ruger showed back up repaired.  There was no explanation, no apology, nothing but the pistol.  Needless to say, I quickly sold that gun and I have never bought another Ruger.  On the positive side, I do have a Modell 77 .270 that I got 25yrs ago that shoots in the same hole.  The new Rugers that I have seen are hit or miss.  If I am buying a new rifle off the shelf it will be a Winchester Model 70 Classic, a Kimber 84, or a CZ 550. 

 

ranburr    

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2004 at 21:55
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It is interesting to go from a short light rifle for close work to manufac. bashing. In considering the rifle question, the Savage scout rifle in 308 would be your perfect choice (wish I had one), but it is only through their custom shop. Contact them thru their web site, I'm sure they would be happy to set you up. Now for other topics. Remington guns ARE the most accurate factory rifles out of the box bar none! (And if you put a NEGG 3 positon saftey like a Winchester, and a NEGG varmit trigger probably the best). Often outshooting much more custom expensive alternatives. Because they take more time with their chambers, (newer reamers) and have hammer forged barrels. Browning bought Winchester several years back and is the reason why so many look alikes between the two. If you discount the new line of what do we need short magnums for Winchesters nothing is new. No one has brought up the fine Coopers and Dakotas out there. Personally I haven't found Ruger barrels to be that accurate since Atkinson stopped making them in the late 80's. (At least this is a much of the puzzle as I know). As far as revolvers check out the new Taurus Tracker in 45ACP. I bought an 8 shot large frame in 357 and have been so impressed with the quality, I bought a Raging Hornet and a Tracker in 45LC,. (There raging Bull in 454 is easier on the shooter than Rugers).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2004 at 22:33
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Hmm.  My experience with out of the box Remington's (and that of people I know) has not been great.  Accurate enough for deer, but that's about it.  I think you are the first person I've encountered who claims that Remingtons are the most accurate out the box rifles.  Everybody loves them, but everybody modifies them to make them shoot.

Anyhow, Taurus in 45ACP is not California approved, otherwise I would already buy it.  I really like the grip on Tracker series.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2004 at 23:16
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I see the similarities of the Winchester and Browning semi-auto shotguns, but the model 70 classic and the A-bolt are night and day different.  I have always found Winchester to be at least as accurate (if not more so) then Remington.  I also prefer the controlled round feeding of the model 70 over push feed designs like Remington (that is just my prejudice).  As far as nothing new goes, I think once the Mauser action was perfected, we reached the pinnacle of bolt-action technology and everything else has just been tweeking.  What I think Remington does do a great job at is sales and marketing.  They make good products at reasonable prices and market them better than anyone in the industry.  That being said, I do not think that they are the best and I don't buy their rifles.  But, if someone were to give me one I sure would not turn it down.  I do like and use the 1100 shotguns for dove hunting.

 

ranburr 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2004 at 04:10
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Hey now...    

I have had 3 rugers for over 18yrs and like them all:

M77V (not MK II) 22-250 (timney installed trigger)
#1V 25-06 ackley (with a custom trigger job)

and a super redhawk 44 mag ( as long as it'll hit a basketball at 5 yds. it serves its purpose)

Their biggest problem has seemed to be "lawyer designed" triggers.... but that is easily fixed.

I don't have any rants or raves about any of the MK II's I've seen lately, but the new #1's are very nice and are being built into more custom rifles than any other name brand single shot.

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