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Colorado Theater Tragedy

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Obi Wan Kenobi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Obi Wan Kenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 18:33
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Obi, why do u think u or anyone should have the right to tell me what rifle i can use to defend my family? By taking away ars that is affectivly what u are doing. There a millions of ars. Millions of them made in other countries. Taking them all away from honest people is not going to stop someone from getting one if they want. Suddenly i am left defending my family with a hunting rifle against seone who cares little about a stupid gun ban and has an ar. Why should i have to be handicapped so u feel some false sense of security.
 
First off let me say I probably don't feel as threatened about the 2nd amendment as many of you do. I don't know where any of you guys live. I live in South Carolina. Our Democratic politicians here, state senators and congressman are pro gun and pro hunting. Hunting and gun ownership will NEVER die in South Carolina.
 
Secondly yes I don't like ARs because I guess I'm not into those types of up close shooting sports nor do I feel like they have a place in the hunting woods. Supertool, lets be honest where has there ever been a case of an AR used as home defense? Many of these weapons are indeed owned by law abiding guys like you and me. People love them for shooting & maybe they shouldn't be out right banned. But its so easy for criminals & psycho groups like the Aryan Nation and Black Panthers. People like this are using ARs and they are using for nothing but intimidation & to start trouble because they think they are bad asses with a machine gun. I'm just upset that they are so EASY to attain & they embolden criminals & nut jobs. I've got a very common name. I got sick and tired of being delayed for basic hunting rifles and shotguns. So I went down to my local law enforcment. Applied for an FBI Vin #. I got finger printed, let them take my photo the whole entire works. Let them see my hunter education ect ect. Now I have no problems getting any weapon I want to. I'm not a criminal and don't mind being checked. Why can't we use just a little common sense and perhaps make sure ARs are going to the right people and perhaps use a cooling period & instructional course like for concealed weapon permits with hand guns? Yes its a pain in the ass, but so is air travel now. I don't even wear ties or shoes with shoe laces when I travel by air these days.
 
I just feel like if the NRA don't come to the table to help solve issues like this this whole enitre AR issue could back fire on all gun ownership. The general public isn't going to understand or believe these types of guns are used for "defense". People aren't going to understand why you can't buy large volumes of cold medicine at Wal Greens but any joe blow can get an AR buy 6k rounds of ammo within 4 days then put the public at his mercy because he's pissed off he lost his job, his girlfriend broke up with him or he got kicked out of school.


Edited by Obi Wan Kenobi - July/21/2012 at 18:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 18:56
Well an ar is exactly what i use for home defense. I have one by my bed every night. I bet it would surprise u how many people do ise them.

I honestly cant beleive u call yourself pro second amendment. U are spewimg the same crap all the anti gunners are constantly spewing. U call it common sense but what u are spewing is not common at all. Just because u dont own and understand the many uses and needs for ars u think no one ahould have them. Jim zumbo all over again.

Do u honeslty beleive banning them would stop some one from getting one if they really wanted it? It would be no different than banning drugs. That has worked out really well hasnt it.

I have lost any kind of respect i had for you. U are no different to me than any other anti gunner who thinks they have the right to tell me how to live my life. If u dont want one that is fine. But dont sit here and say those of us who wnt them for defense, protection, and hunting dont need them. I hunt with ars 10 times more than i do with any other gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 19:23
Obi:

There's a whole LOT of things I don't understand about our currant society and their ways. Why should I care if they "understand" my need to own AR, AK, or a fully automatic weapon? 
Society isn't compelled to live by MY standards, why should I recognize theirs? 

Supertool is spot on. Your part of the problem, not the solution.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 19:25
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Every time I hear "clip" when "magazine" is the appropriate term, I get bunged up. 
Using correct gun terms are one of the many things that separate gun people from the masses of the ill informed.  

Prayers sent to the families and those affected by this senseless tragedy. 


It will not happen again. ;)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 19:57
First off let me say I probably don't feel as threatened about the 2nd amendment as many of you do. I don't know where any of you guys live. I live in South Carolina. Our Democratic politicians here, state senators and congressman are pro gun and pro hunting. Hunting and gun ownership will NEVER die in South Carolina.
 
This explains alot. Seeing the big picture is what has most gun owners taking a stand. When you track the progress of gun control over the yrs you begin to see their tactics and deceitful ways they are willing to twist things like this to prejudice the undecided.
Obi has been only mildly effected by the anti's so far. I hope he never has to deal with what we see potentially comming our way.
 

Chill Humperdink, Obi's goal isn't to take your AR away. He, like so many others is under the impression that regulation and training will prevent lunitics from useing them in their exploits. I appreciate Obi and his opinion. If we respect his opinion and learn how to help those in his mind set understand what is really going on then we are all stronger for it. I remember a time when I had little use for an AR and could still get along fine without one but, I now better appreciate the position we are in concerning our rights. If only one tenth of one percent of gun owners in the US have a desire to own an AR then the rest of us have to support that choice.

What I hope to help Obi understand is that if this wasn't about the AR it would certainly be about something else. The base anti's have an agenda which is to disarm the population knowing that the unarmed are subjects and those who exercise the right to be armed are free.
Obi as you can see tempers can flare on all sides of this issue. Just try to understand this perspective. Its a lot easier to hold on to what you have than it is to get back something that was forceably taken away or stolen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 01:38
Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

"A man who is willing to trade freedom for security, deserves neither."
 Guns are not at fault here. They are but tools in the hands of anybody. None of the tools did any harm by themselves. It was the hands of a man that did the killing in Colorado last night... Would you have preferred that he beat them to death with a hammer? Or maybe stood by the only door with a chainsaw? Tools are tools. They are not evil. They don't do harm or good...They are dead...
 
You're right, guns are but tools. The man pulling the trigger is evil. But why give evil people such awesome unnecessary tools to embolden themselves to threaten the innocent public? He woudln't have caused the damage and loss of life he did with a hammer, chainsaw or even a 50 cal.
 
When the Giffords lady was shot, nobody is screaming for all 9mms to be banned. It was the large clip that emboldened her shooter.
 
Cars aren't evil but we do have speed limits and drinking laws for public safety for our fellow citizens. Like I said I believe in gun ownership and I have several weapons but when you're talking ARs with 100 round clips and the like. That kind of gun ownership only needs to be in the hands of the upmost responsible American citizen. If not, we are going to have repeated unnecessary loss of innocent life like this over and over.
 
 
 
I may be wrong but it appears you are deliberately NOT looking at the core issue. The right for the common reasonable responsible citizen to own a firearm of their choosing. No matter its configuration. A lunitic set on doing harm is gonna arm themselves with what ever means they choose. You seem to be of a mind that banning a specific arm from the general public will effectivly prevent a killer from obtaining his weapon of choice. Look at cities where handguns are banned. Who has handguns? Lawenforcement and criminals. The general public is easy prey for rapist and theives. You need to consider just how vast the options of distruction are. That are available to anyone who chooses to do harm. I have little pratical use for an AR but I'm proficient with one and I do enjoy shooting one. Thats all the reasoning a responsible citizen needs to justify owning one. To efectivly accomplish what you are proposing would require the distruction and hault of all production of all AR style rifles. But wait a minute, what about 22 rifles that have tube mags? Oh and simi-auto shotguns. Do you have any idea how deadly they are. You my friend (and I say these things with all respect to you as a patriot) are on that tricly slippery slope that has us on this topic to begin with. Loosing focus of the core issue is just what the anti's hope we will do. Because as long as we are divided they can be more effective. Your arguement is valid on the surface and the anti's exploit it to the extreme. But the bottom line is, Taking certain arms out of the hands of the general public in no way prevents the lunitic from having it...............so let the citizen be armed as they choose and defend themselves, enforce the death penality to the fullest and both will discourage "some" of this behavior.
 
So let me ask you this question. Do you still feel comfortable for Arab Muslims BORN IN THE U S still being able to take flight lessons here without back ground checks and such? Should they just be able to go to any private airport and learn how to fly a plane without any questions or vetting process to the fullest degree?
 
I'll tell you my answer, its HELL NO! Unless they are vetted to the fullest degree & declared not a threat to the public. Its just my feeling about ARs and most people with common sense who support the 2nd amendment feel the same about ARs. I'd be willing bet most of the people using ARs to commit acts like this and the common street thug in places like Chicago know little or nothing about firearms. All they know is that ARs are cheap, the ammon is cheap, they have the highest ammo clips, easy to load, point and shoot.
 


That this happened sux!  I'm not a AR fan, don't own one.  But if you set emotions aside for half a sec. you will come to the conclusion that we should be thankful he used an AR.  5.56 was not designed to kill only incapacitate.  Does not console the families of the dead or wounded but I'm being emotionless at this point.  The reports are 300 people were in the theater.  71 people were hit, 12 died.
 So that less than 20% wounded and 4% killed.  The psycho could have killed everybody in the theater with the IEDs he rigged in his apartment. 
Our second amendment rights should not curtailed because a whack job does something like this.  Did we ban diesel fuel and fertilizer after OK City?  No.

I do have one question though.........  What the heck is in the friggin' water up there?       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 02:03
Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

"A man who is willing to trade freedom for security, deserves neither."
 Guns are not at fault here. They are but tools in the hands of anybody. None of the tools did any harm by themselves. It was the hands of a man that did the killing in Colorado last night... Would you have preferred that he beat them to death with a hammer? Or maybe stood by the only door with a chainsaw? Tools are tools. They are not evil. They don't do harm or good...They are dead...
 
You're right, guns are but tools. The man pulling the trigger is evil. But why give evil people such awesome unnecessary tools to embolden themselves to threaten the innocent public? He woudln't have caused the damage and loss of life he did with a hammer, chainsaw or even a 50 cal.
 
When the Giffords lady was shot, nobody is screaming for all 9mms to be banned. It was the large clip that emboldened her shooter.
 
Cars aren't evil but we do have speed limits and drinking laws for public safety for our fellow citizens. Like I said I believe in gun ownership and I have several weapons but when you're talking ARs with 100 round clips and the like. That kind of gun ownership only needs to be in the hands of the upmost responsible American citizen. If not, we are going to have repeated unnecessary loss of innocent life like this over and over.
 
 
 
I may be wrong but it appears you are deliberately NOT looking at the core issue. The right for the common reasonable responsible citizen to own a firearm of their choosing. No matter its configuration. A lunitic set on doing harm is gonna arm themselves with what ever means they choose. You seem to be of a mind that banning a specific arm from the general public will effectivly prevent a killer from obtaining his weapon of choice. Look at cities where handguns are banned. Who has handguns? Lawenforcement and criminals. The general public is easy prey for rapist and theives. You need to consider just how vast the options of distruction are. That are available to anyone who chooses to do harm. I have little pratical use for an AR but I'm proficient with one and I do enjoy shooting one. Thats all the reasoning a responsible citizen needs to justify owning one. To efectivly accomplish what you are proposing would require the distruction and hault of all production of all AR style rifles. But wait a minute, what about 22 rifles that have tube mags? Oh and simi-auto shotguns. Do you have any idea how deadly they are. You my friend (and I say these things with all respect to you as a patriot) are on that tricly slippery slope that has us on this topic to begin with. Loosing focus of the core issue is just what the anti's hope we will do. Because as long as we are divided they can be more effective. Your arguement is valid on the surface and the anti's exploit it to the extreme. But the bottom line is, Taking certain arms out of the hands of the general public in no way prevents the lunitic from having it...............so let the citizen be armed as they choose and defend themselves, enforce the death penality to the fullest and both will discourage "some" of this behavior.
 
So let me ask you this question. Do you still feel comfortable for Arab Muslims BORN IN THE U S still being able to take flight lessons here without back ground checks and such? Should they just be able to go to any private airport and learn how to fly a plane without any questions or vetting process to the fullest degree?   You may hate this, but I say "Hell Yes!"
 
I'll tell you my answer, its HELL NO! Unless they are vetted to the fullest degree & declared not a threat to the public. Its just my feeling about ARs and most people with common sense who support the 2nd amendment feel the same about ARs. I'd be willing bet most of the people using ARs to commit acts like this and the common street thug in places like Chicago know little or nothing about firearms. All they know is that ARs are cheap, the ammon is cheap, they have the highest ammo clips, easy to load, point and shoot.
 


Okay, here's my 2 cents on this.  This has nothing to do with the ARs.  A few months after 9/11 I was on a flight from Detroit back to B'ham when I noticed this Iranian guy walking down the aisle, he hadn't noticed me yet.  EVERYONE on that plane was looking at the man.  I wasn't worried about it for two reasons.  The first of witch was the guy was my boss 4 years earlier, the second I knew what Baptist church his Father in Law preached at.  The guy graduated from my towns high school.  When he saw me he light up, he knew everyone's eye were on him and so did I.  He called out to me and said Hi how was the family? And I asked him in a voice loud enough for the whole plane to hear, how was the Baptist Preachers daughter he was married to? This tended to calm everyone.  I do not worry about the looks of person, due to the fact that there are more Caucasian Muslims in this world than Arab.  I'm sure Ilya gets looks from people to while flying.  Which he shouldn't.  Why would I want to impose limits to ones man freedoms when he has done nothing to deserve it?  To me that truly is UN-American!   Ben Franklin was right!  We should not give up liberties because of the fear of a threat!         
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 08:26
Great story Steel.Sometimes I forget that I served my country[USA] so that people have the right to be free & are supported by the Constitution & all her Rights.Thanks for the reminder guys.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 08:29
Forgot to mention has anyone ever tried to put a Magazine into a M1 Garrand ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 09:23
QUOTE

Okay, here's my 2 cents on this. This has nothing to do with the ARs. A few months after 9/11 I was on a flight from Detroit back to B'ham when I noticed this Iranian guy walking down the aisle, he hadn't noticed me yet. EVERYONE on that plane was looking at the man. I wasn't worried about it for two reasons. The first of witch was the guy was my boss 4 years earlier, the second I knew what Baptist church his Father in Law preached at. The guy graduated from my towns high school. When he saw me he light up, he knew everyone's eye were on him and so did I. He called out to me and said Hi how was the family? And I asked him in a voice loud enough for the whole plane to hear, how was the Baptist Preachers daughter he was married to? This tended to calm everyone. I do not worry about the looks of person, due to the fact that there are more Caucasian Muslims in this world than Arab. I'm sure Ilya gets looks from people to while flying. Which he shouldn't. Why would I want to impose limits to ones man freedoms when he has done nothing to deserve it? To me that truly is UN-American! Ben Franklin was right! We should not give up liberties because of the fear of a threat! 
 
You make a very solid point but, its more than simple appearance. If you hadn't known him maybe you still would have had no concern that he was Iranian. Or if you saw someone of similar origin displaying frustration or impatients (reguardlees of the reason) you might have to be like those who are unsure.
This is one of the purposes of terrorism. To enstill fear and distrust among the people. If innocent arabic's suffer mistreatment it only serves to further their cause.
It is true that Caucasian Muslims far out number arbic's in the US. So the threat to our Christian way of life is facing a greater threat than most realize. The percent of radicals is still on the low side but unfortunatly it only takes one to do alot of harm as we've seen. The general public doesn't have the luxury of knowing who was born in the US and who holds common values. When I see someone dressed in arabic garb I admittedly take a defensive posture and I wrestle with suspision, dislike and distrust. To me that display is afirming the muslim beleif. I may be wrong in that assumption but I have no reliable information to the contrary. I don't beleive anyone who does not hold to being muslim would dress to display it. Being objective is of great value but being blinded by lack of understanding is where they take advantage of us.
 
Concerning your last statment. When dealing with terrorism you have no choice. You don't "limit" your liberity for fear but for security of the innocent. Until the threat is terminated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 12:52

Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:



Its the AR rifle that’s gotten the most attention.

I LOVE guns and hunting.



Well I don’t love hunting.

 

Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

 But its just too easy for any lunatic to get his or her hands on ARs.

I guess I'm a purist when it comes to rifles. I just don't see the need for anything other than a bolt action, 4 round clip semi auto, single shot rifle, or double rifle. I've never been a fan of them.



Some of the worst marksmanship I have ever seen is  form hunters who cannot hit an 18 inch square at 50 yards from a rest  along with the worst (unsafe) gun handling!

Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

I guess I'm a purist when it comes to rifles. I just don't see the need for anything other than a bolt action, 4 round clip semi auto, single shot rifle, or double rifle. I've never been a fan of them.

I have never been a fan of any break open type action.

Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

…with these assault rifles … and they make hunters and sportsman look bad! They aren't for home or car defense and I don't know a single person who hunts with an AR with a large clip of ammunition.

Drunken red neck hunters riding around and shooting road signs make true marksmen look bad!

 

It is these interse battles that occur between the various gun groups* that this type of discussion (my fictions parley above) always evolves into, pitting one group against the other!  Obi Wan Kenobi I am sorry if the above seems offensive to you and anyone else who follows that line of thought.  It is not my intention to be inflammatory but this discussion is heading there already so let’s get it out of the way so we can move to the real point. For the record I believe in hunting and responsible hunters who are the majority and the beneficial role they play in wildlife management!

Obi Wan Kenobi your line of thought is wrong because you believe it will somehow save

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 13:35
Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

 
 ... lets be honest where has there ever been a case of an AR used as home defense?
 
 
Yes, a former coworker did so when someone broke into his home one summer night at a very remote location (police about a half hour to hour away - not everything is close together like the east coast)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 14:36
Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

QUOTE

Okay, here's my 2 cents on this. This has nothing to do with the ARs. A few months after 9/11 I was on a flight from Detroit back to B'ham when I noticed this Iranian guy walking down the aisle, he hadn't noticed me yet. EVERYONE on that plane was looking at the man. I wasn't worried about it for two reasons. The first of witch was the guy was my boss 4 years earlier, the second I knew what Baptist church his Father in Law preached at. The guy graduated from my towns high school. When he saw me he light up, he knew everyone's eye were on him and so did I. He called out to me and said Hi how was the family? And I asked him in a voice loud enough for the whole plane to hear, how was the Baptist Preachers daughter he was married to? This tended to calm everyone. I do not worry about the looks of person, due to the fact that there are more Caucasian Muslims in this world than Arab. I'm sure Ilya gets looks from people to while flying. Which he shouldn't. Why would I want to impose limits to ones man freedoms when he has done nothing to deserve it? To me that truly is UN-American! Ben Franklin was right! We should not give up liberties because of the fear of a threat! 
 
You make a very solid point but, its more than simple appearance. If you hadn't known him maybe you still would have had no concern that he was Iranian. Or if you saw someone of similar origin displaying frustration or impatients (reguardlees of the reason) you might have to be like those who are unsure.
This is one of the purposes of terrorism. To enstill fear and distrust among the people. If innocent arabic's suffer mistreatment it only serves to further their cause.
It is true that Caucasian Muslims far out number arbic's in the US. So the threat to our Christian way of life is facing a greater threat than most realize. The percent of radicals is still on the low side but unfortunatly it only takes one to do alot of harm as we've seen. The general public doesn't have the luxury of knowing who was born in the US and who holds common values. When I see someone dressed in arabic garb I admittedly take a defensive posture and I wrestle with suspision, dislike and distrust. To me that display is afirming the muslim beleif. I may be wrong in that assumption but I have no reliable information to the contrary. I don't beleive anyone who does not hold to being muslim would dress to display it. Being objective is of great value but being blinded by lack of understanding is where they take advantage of us.
 
Concerning your last statment. When dealing with terrorism you have no choice. You don't "limit" your liberity for fear but for security of the innocent. Until the threat is terminated.


Sarge, I respectfully disagree.  The biggest problem is the threat will never be terminated.  Ergo, we should face the terrorist head on.  I write this from the international terminal in Atlanta heading across the pond.  We should use the American Creed as a model for our lives. 

We need to live with a "No Fear!" attitude, it would be an insult to all who have died defending our freedoms to do anything else.  I'm not preachin' at you my brother I know you've stood to defend them too.
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Quote,
Sarge, I respectfully disagree. The biggest problem is the threat will never be terminated. Ergo, we should face the terrorist head on. I write this from the international terminal in Atlanta heading across the pond. We should use the American Creed as a model for our lives.

We need to live with a "No Fear!" attitude, it would be an insult to all who have died defending our freedoms to do anything else. I'm not preachin' at you my brother I know you've stood to defend them too.
Quote
 
I agree 100%
 
But that doesn't take away from my post. The threat may never go away. But the eminant theat we face can be derailed. Though it seems highly unlikely when our own president is numbered among the enemy.
We should face terrorist head on and I felt we did that from 2001 until 2007 but then the popularity of the fight started to lose support. People here weren't ready for the vast costs of the battle in lives and resources. Then being desperate for change ie. a quick fix to the woes each individual faced. A so called majority blindly appointed a puppet muslim to office.
 
OH MAN!! To live with no fear. I could write a book. What could I say here that would be of benefit.
 
(I removed a statment here being checked in the spirit over its accuracy.)
 
I don't believe a person can truly understand fear and faith until they know for a certainty that they are going to be killed in the next couple of minutes. One of the two is going to take over that moment. I'm gonna refrain from writing a book here. To keep it short, In combat I saw men who I thought to be strong couragous and dependable turn to jello and regular unassuming men run to the fight and do amazing things. If you asked each one they both generally responded the same. "I don't know, I couldn't help myself". Few people in our nation have faced such a moment. Thier fear is primarily based on ignorance. Not knowing if their job is secure or if the stock market is stable. Or if thier retirement will be there when they need it. Ligitimate concerns no doubt. But when they elect officials who are making promises they can't possibly keep they are acting in fear and ignorance.
 
As far as the disgrace of our fallen. They were disgraced when this country appointed a muslim as commander and cheif. Honor will only be restored if we put a true American in that position and judge and exicute the deceiver.
Those who have fallen, fell in their honor. We who live bare the shame of this generation. So it is up to us to make it right or atleast do our very best to.
 
I am with you 100% to stand without fear. But if we stand divided on the little stuff we weaken our effect. I think one key to success is, I don't have to totally agree with you, I don't even have to like you to stand for the greater good but, I do have to trust you and you me. Or we will disarm ourselves while our enemy sits back and laffs.


Edited by Sgt. D - July/22/2012 at 17:14
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 17:03
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.
-Martin Luther
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jselsor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2012 at 22:19
Obi

Evil will ALWAYS find the means to create mayhem tragedy.

 This crazy evil bastard could could have created just as much if not more death and destruction by building a pipe bomb with simple products from the hardware store. Does this mean we should ban nails, nuts, and bolts???? Stop and think about how your train of thought makes your freedom vulnerable.

On another note God bless the fact that we live in a country that breeds such passion, pride with the freedom to state our opinions and fight for them!  
Dont take yourself to seriously
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2012 at 13:48
I've been through this fight before, remember the 1994 Assault Weapon Ban. I'm sure many of us do.
 
I remember reading an article in Playboy Magazine about gun control. It was biased of course, but pretty fair for a left leaning magazine. The one point they made that stuck with me, was about full automatic weapons and the 1934 National Firearms Act. They're point was that people purchasing full autos, had to undergo finger printing, photos, a background check, registration of the weapon, and a $200 transfer tax; and NONE of the legal owners of full autos had ever been involved in a violent crime. Why couldn't all guns be treated this way. I thought they made a good argument at the time, but I saw a flaw in logic that had just not been proven, YET.
A few years later the McCluer Volmer Firearms owner protection bill was being debated in Congress. A bill designed to strengthen gun owners rights,especially when traveling. The Democrats hated the bill, but it had lots of support, but was not a slam dunk for passage. Then this Senator named Joe Biden (know who he is now) got language put in the bill that his fellow anti-gun Democrats could support. They BANNED the manufactor of all future full autos. They knew that full auto owners were the smallest group of gunowners, and nobody would support them and risk endangering a pro-gun bill for political reasons.
I thought about the Playboy article and that flaw in logic. Yes background checks and registration detered crimes, but it also made banning and possible confiscation much easier.
Well it turned out that the Democrats were the big winners when this bill passed. They had precidence for banning guns, and a road map to do it.
A couple of years later a bill failed in congress, that would have required a waiting period to buy handguns. Two days later the anti-gunners vowed to go after semi-automatic weapons that were based on full-automatic weapons (what they call assault weapons now). Again, a catagory of arms that did not have a lot of ownership support at the time, and also did not have much involvment in crime.
Well a few years later the antis got thier wish, with two mass shootings just months apart; one in Stockton, Cal., and one in Louisville, Ky. The fight was on. In the end the anti-gunners won 2 victories, but with compromises. They got their waiting periods on handguns, but had to accept instant background checks on all guns when they came on line. They also got their assault weapon ban, but only on certain features and magazines over 10 rounds, and a 10 year sunset clause.
Mass killings are few and far between for the most part, but they have occured since the beginning of man. What makes them so spectacular now, is the media. The entertainment media that inspires these disturbed people with their glorification of violence, and how they can draw attention to themselves, and the news media that reports these incidents and gives these disturbed people the attention they want and are willing to blame an inantament object more than the offender.
 
Anyone who thinks that the camel's nose is in the tent; needs to realize that the camel is already in the tent up to his neck. We just managed to push his front feet out, but he still wants in. 
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2012 at 15:01
I despise the View TV show but watched a little today to see where the libs where going to come from. As expected the topic was banning "Assalt weapons". And they played the same record we've seen so many times. Asking "why does anyone need an assualt weapon"? Holding the same empty arguement that banning something will solve the problem. They did however suprisingly confess that the individual was ultimately responsible. But since it is all but impossible to know what individual may go off in the future they are content to simply ban the weapon. They want someone from the NRA to come on the show and "intellegently" convince them that there is some justification for assault weapons to be avaliable. It could be intellegently done but I don't know if ther is anyone in the NRA that could do it. Besides the only valid point that needs to be made opposing any ban is that a ban only effects those who obey the law. More laws, tougher restrictions only effect those who abid by them. As mentioned here before. Someone intent on committing mass murder will find a way wether pipe bomb or any other means at their disposal. The simple solution would be to encourage open and concealed carry. In that case if someone pulls a stunt like this it is likely to be stopped well before so many are injured. If anything require or incourage defensive training for all who desire to carry. The law abiding far out number the bad guys. If carry was incouraged and trained the the problem would shortly solve its self. Yes there would be mishaps but the incidents would fewer as would the mishaps over time. Its a dream I know but what else are we gonna do.
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/2012 at 11:21
People want to ban AR style rifles. Their argument states that there is no need or valid reason for having a semi-automatic weapon with a high capacity magazine.
 
My question to them is, where is the need or valid reason in having a Ferrari, Lamborghini or any other vehicle of this nature.
A super car with the ability to exceed speeds of over 200mph. A piece of machinery comprised of steel and aluminum crafted for one reason... Speed! A piece of machinery that gives an individual the abilities to take not only one, but so many innocent lives.
 
It is not the machine that takes lives, it is the irresponsible human that makes the decision to take those lives. Gun control laws are like speed limits, they can and will be broken. People will unfortunately die each day in fatal car accidents... Vehicle ban?
 
It is my right as an American citizen to own any style of firearm I wish to have. Its not the 30 round or drum magazine that killed all of those innocent people... It wasn't the inanimate piece of steel or lead that made the decision to take lives... It was the corrupt and evil-minded individual manipulating these objects.
 
 When such a horrific tragedy takes place on US soil against US citizens, instead of being stripped of our rights of defense, instead of one group pointing the finger at another, I believe the people of this country should band together in the defense of our lives, our families, our freedom and our security.
 
When all of our lives were rocked on September 11, did we bow down? Did we start banning items involved? Did we sit idly by to see what happend next? No, we came together as one to defend what was ours... Freedom. We sent our ourselves, brothers, sons, fathers, sisters, family and friends overseas to fight with everything we had. So what makes this event any different? (I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic) When these events happen, it makes me wonder how many people are going to bow down to the people salivating over the chance to strip us of our rights and how many people are going to finally get pissed enough they decide to finally stand up and say, "I have had enough!"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/2012 at 13:11
Visit the Ed Show
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