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Colorado Theater Tragedy

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Obi Wan Kenobi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Obi Wan Kenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 00:31
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

"A man who is willing to trade freedom for security, deserves neither."
 Guns are not at fault here. They are but tools in the hands of anybody. None of the tools did any harm by themselves. It was the hands of a man that did the killing in Colorado last night... Would you have preferred that he beat them to death with a hammer? Or maybe stood by the only door with a chainsaw? Tools are tools. They are not evil. They don't do harm or good...They are dead...
 
You're right, guns are but tools. The man pulling the trigger is evil. But why give evil people such awesome unnecessary tools to embolden themselves to threaten the innocent public? He woudln't have caused the damage and loss of life he did with a hammer, chainsaw or even a 50 cal.
 
When the Giffords lady was shot, nobody is screaming for all 9mms to be banned. It was the large clip that emboldened her shooter.
 
Cars aren't evil but we do have speed limits and drinking laws for public safety for our fellow citizens. Like I said I believe in gun ownership and I have several weapons but when you're talking ARs with 100 round clips and the like. That kind of gun ownership only needs to be in the hands of the upmost responsible American citizen. If not, we are going to have repeated unnecessary loss of innocent life like this over and over.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 05:34
I beg to differ on the size of caliber.
 The congruent theme between this shooting and the Con. Gifford shooting, is the fact that both were relatively sure there were no guns against them. At this shooting it was the policy of the theater that no weapons were allowed, even for Concealed Carry permit holders. At the Congress Womans speech, it was the fact that she is a DEM, and had run for office on a anti-gun stance. After all, it is a lot easier to be a whacko, if nobody else has the ability to pull a gun and shoot back.
 The weapon type has nothing to do with this horrific event. And to blame a collection of aluminum and steel for the horrific madness of a man...That's almost criminal in itself!
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratface Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 06:59
Yeah, the anti-gun people didnt waste any time. Blaming the firearms is like blaming the knife for a knife murderer, the car for DUI fatalities, the crowbar in a murder, and so on. These all have one thing in common.....the PERSON (Loco) that decides not to be HUMAN. Prayers go out to the affected families.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 07:23
Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

"A man who is willing to trade freedom for security, deserves neither."
 Guns are not at fault here. They are but tools in the hands of anybody. None of the tools did any harm by themselves. It was the hands of a man that did the killing in Colorado last night... Would you have preferred that he beat them to death with a hammer? Or maybe stood by the only door with a chainsaw? Tools are tools. They are not evil. They don't do harm or good...They are dead...
 
You're right, guns are but tools. The man pulling the trigger is evil. But why give evil people such awesome unnecessary tools to embolden themselves to threaten the innocent public? He woudln't have caused the damage and loss of life he did with a hammer, chainsaw or even a 50 cal.
 
When the Giffords lady was shot, nobody is screaming for all 9mms to be banned. It was the large clip that emboldened her shooter.
 
Cars aren't evil but we do have speed limits and drinking laws for public safety for our fellow citizens. Like I said I believe in gun ownership and I have several weapons but when you're talking ARs with 100 round clips and the like. That kind of gun ownership only needs to be in the hands of the upmost responsible American citizen. If not, we are going to have repeated unnecessary loss of innocent life like this over and over.
 
 
 
I may be wrong but it appears you are deliberately NOT looking at the core issue. The right for the common reasonable responsible citizen to own a firearm of their choosing. No matter its configuration. A lunitic set on doing harm is gonna arm themselves with what ever means they choose. You seem to be of a mind that banning a specific arm from the general public will effectivly prevent a killer from obtaining his weapon of choice. Look at cities where handguns are banned. Who has handguns? Lawenforcement and criminals. The general public is easy prey for rapist and theives. You need to consider just how vast the options of distruction are. That are available to anyone who chooses to do harm. I have little pratical use for an AR but I'm proficient with one and I do enjoy shooting one. Thats all the reasoning a responsible citizen needs to justify owning one. To efectivly accomplish what you are proposing would require the distruction and hault of all production of all AR style rifles. But wait a minute, what about 22 rifles that have tube mags? Oh and simi-auto shotguns. Do you have any idea how deadly they are. You my friend (and I say these things with all respect to you as a patriot) are on that tricly slippery slope that has us on this topic to begin with. Loosing focus of the core issue is just what the anti's hope we will do. Because as long as we are divided they can be more effective. Your arguement is valid on the surface and the anti's exploit it to the extreme. But the bottom line is, Taking certain arms out of the hands of the general public in no way prevents the lunitic from having it...............so let the citizen be armed as they choose and defend themselves, enforce the death penality to the fullest and both will discourage "some" of this behavior.
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 08:18
more acts of random violence will occur
midnight movies should be banned
increase in media coverage of who gets, and how much policing function of basic rights etc. etc. on and on

what I want to know is if the people got a refund or a rain-check
and what kind bullets the guy was using.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Obi Wan Kenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 10:01
Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

"A man who is willing to trade freedom for security, deserves neither."
 Guns are not at fault here. They are but tools in the hands of anybody. None of the tools did any harm by themselves. It was the hands of a man that did the killing in Colorado last night... Would you have preferred that he beat them to death with a hammer? Or maybe stood by the only door with a chainsaw? Tools are tools. They are not evil. They don't do harm or good...They are dead...
 
You're right, guns are but tools. The man pulling the trigger is evil. But why give evil people such awesome unnecessary tools to embolden themselves to threaten the innocent public? He woudln't have caused the damage and loss of life he did with a hammer, chainsaw or even a 50 cal.
 
When the Giffords lady was shot, nobody is screaming for all 9mms to be banned. It was the large clip that emboldened her shooter.
 
Cars aren't evil but we do have speed limits and drinking laws for public safety for our fellow citizens. Like I said I believe in gun ownership and I have several weapons but when you're talking ARs with 100 round clips and the like. That kind of gun ownership only needs to be in the hands of the upmost responsible American citizen. If not, we are going to have repeated unnecessary loss of innocent life like this over and over.
 
 
 
I may be wrong but it appears you are deliberately NOT looking at the core issue. The right for the common reasonable responsible citizen to own a firearm of their choosing. No matter its configuration. A lunitic set on doing harm is gonna arm themselves with what ever means they choose. You seem to be of a mind that banning a specific arm from the general public will effectivly prevent a killer from obtaining his weapon of choice. Look at cities where handguns are banned. Who has handguns? Lawenforcement and criminals. The general public is easy prey for rapist and theives. You need to consider just how vast the options of distruction are. That are available to anyone who chooses to do harm. I have little pratical use for an AR but I'm proficient with one and I do enjoy shooting one. Thats all the reasoning a responsible citizen needs to justify owning one. To efectivly accomplish what you are proposing would require the distruction and hault of all production of all AR style rifles. But wait a minute, what about 22 rifles that have tube mags? Oh and simi-auto shotguns. Do you have any idea how deadly they are. You my friend (and I say these things with all respect to you as a patriot) are on that tricly slippery slope that has us on this topic to begin with. Loosing focus of the core issue is just what the anti's hope we will do. Because as long as we are divided they can be more effective. Your arguement is valid on the surface and the anti's exploit it to the extreme. But the bottom line is, Taking certain arms out of the hands of the general public in no way prevents the lunitic from having it...............so let the citizen be armed as they choose and defend themselves, enforce the death penality to the fullest and both will discourage "some" of this behavior.
 
So let me ask you this question. Do you still feel comfortable for Arab Muslims BORN IN THE U S still being able to take flight lessons here without back ground checks and such? Should they just be able to go to any private airport and learn how to fly a plane without any questions or vetting process to the fullest degree?
 
I'll tell you my answer, its HELL NO! Unless they are vetted to the fullest degree & declared not a threat to the public. Its just my feeling about ARs and most people with common sense who support the 2nd amendment feel the same about ARs. I'd be willing bet most of the people using ARs to commit acts like this and the common street thug in places like Chicago know little or nothing about firearms. All they know is that ARs are cheap, the ammon is cheap, they have the highest ammo clips, easy to load, point and shoot.
 


Edited by Obi Wan Kenobi - July/21/2012 at 10:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 10:11
Obi, why do u think u or anyone should have the right to tell me what rifle i can use to defend my family? By taking away ars that is affectivly what u are doing. There a millions of ars. Millions of them made in other countries. Taking them all away from honest people is not going to stop someone from getting one if they want. Suddenly i am left defending my family with a hunting rifle against seone who cares little about a stupid gun ban and has an ar. Why should i have to be handicapped so u feel some false sense of security.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 10:38
Thats our Dale. Always a stickler for details!!
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 10:45
1."Its just my feeling about ARs and most people with common sense who support the 2nd amendment feel the same about ARs"
I think not, check what happened to Jim Zumbo. He has since changed his mind.
 
2."All they know is that ARs are cheap"
Have you even bothered to look at AR pricing? I think not because AR's generally run close to $1k and up.
 
I liken bringing this topic up on this tread to Michael Bloomberg jumping on this immediately after the tragedy. Start a new thread or a poll on the topic. I don't think you will like the dialogue or results, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 10:59
Obi has his opinion on this but, he has not thought this through at all. Banning ar's means only banning ar's for citizens who obey the law... criminal's obeying an ar/assault ban???????????? LOL

This opinion of his is a very slippery slope that WILL end up as an full on gun ban... no doubt about it. Remember the anti-gun hippies are taking baby steps starting with assault type weapons/ammo being the easiest to gain public opinion against. By saying things like "high powered" among other things without knowing anything about the weapons/ammo they are talking about in other words... just repeating what the media wants.

No, we need to stand by ALL, lawful gun owners if we want to keep our own guns its that simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 11:18
By the way... anyone - ANYONE!!! Think the mnsbc/huffington crowd is going to just quite their agenda with a ban on 30 round clips - assault rifles - handguns - and so on??   

I don't know about anyone else but, to me just giving ground and giving ground is no way to live. This is a very serious deal you can only give so much ground before it is total defeat. When gun owners start giving here and there...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 11:26
[/QUOTE]
 
So let me ask you this question. Do you still feel comfortable for Arab Muslims BORN IN THE U S still being able to take flight lessons here without back ground checks and such? Should they just be able to go to any private airport and learn how to fly a plane without any questions or vetting process to the fullest degree?
 
I'll tell you my answer, its HELL NO! Unless they are vetted to the fullest degree & declared not a threat to the public. Its just my feeling about ARs and most people with common sense who support the 2nd amendment feel the same about ARs. I'd be willing bet most of the people using ARs to commit acts like this and the common street thug in places like Chicago know little or nothing about firearms. All they know is that ARs are cheap, the ammon is cheap, they have the highest ammo clips, easy to load, point and shoot.
 
[/QUOTE]
 
I think very highly of common since. Profiling is the most basic common since. You may not be able to totally judge all books by its cover but most of the time you'll get a general since of its content. You picked an arab muslim as an example. If someone professes to be muslim reguardless of nationality I do not trust them because I was forced to deal with them one on one. The muslim religon is corrupt and deceitful from its conception. Anyone who argues the point either doesn't know what they are taliking about or is trying to keep the ignorant just that. I was trained to recognize traits of agression and other valuable bits of knowledge. You cannot declare anyone to not be a threat to the public. But for one exption. And this is proven but you won't find documentation. A true Christian who's life bares evidence of the fruits of the spirit is one that I put my confidence in  for being trustworthy.
And even then, I myself professing to be a Christian putting Jesus before anything else have had to decide that if required I can take anothers life. You put most anybody in a position of defending life or loved one and they will fight. But that doesn't make them a threat to the public unless they are armed improperly or incompetitently.
You take issue with the AR and I respect that. My opinion of the AR would not be appreciated by many who love them. But I have experience with them that only (compared to the nations population) a few soldiers and law enforcement have. But again this is where those who defend the right to bare arms continue to be divided needlessly. Any ban or law put in place will only effect those who will respect that law.
If your protest is simply the existance of the AR then again your point is valid but, in the scheme of things concerning our rights. Its detrimental because it only serves those who want control over you being another step in their favor. If you are passionate about the armed population being trained and responsible. Then you are more effective offering that training to those who you can motivate. If your passion is in making life safer for the population then arm yourself, become profecient and "try" to get someone in office who will enforce the death penalty the way Texas does.
 
Just for commic releif, ARs are not cheap in my world. I do like the price of ammo compared to others.
 
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 11:42
Saying no one needs a 30 round clip is not the point it is about the freedom to chose. Just like saying no one needs a car that goes over the speed limit... it is freedom thing.
Just like fair chase, stand, blind, private, public, archery, muzzleloader, pistol, DIY, guided, range shooting and so one... its all good.

Sgt D has it right the divide is needless. The federal government is not your friend when comes to these control/tax issues.

Edited by rustic - July/21/2012 at 12:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 12:19
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Saying no one needs a 30 round clip...

I know I know.....it's petty, but this bugs me. Carry on.....




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 12:21
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:


Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Saying no one needs a 30 round clip...


I know I know.....it's petty, but this bugs me. Carry on.....






My bad. ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 12:30
I think Mark is channeling Col Cooper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 12:41
Every time I hear "clip" when "magazine" is the appropriate term, I get bunged up. 
Using correct gun terms are one of the many things that separate gun people from the masses of the ill informed.  

Prayers sent to the families and those affected by this senseless tragedy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 13:17
interesting word-- "ban"
don't really know what it means
first time I heard it was when the NRA backed away from supporting select fire weapons and allowed a "ban" on there manufacture, but the gov. via batf gets to tax them, so I guess ban means taking your rights away to buy something cheap
second time I heard "ban" was when they banned private (more or less) from having FFLs, which was pushed by large retailers because table top gunsmith were competing with their business, so I guess ban means taking your right away to buy something cheap
third time I heard ban was on high cap mags, and sense they were in short supply ban must mean taking away your rights to buy something cheap. 

summarizing -- is "banning"
preventing individual ownership
is it preventing the transfer of 
is it preventing the manufacture of

it must be last one as the first two are totally unenforceable. (or at least cost prohibitive)

but the manufactures have already stock up for years ahead (just like WWII) so they can sell them without causing a economic hardship on (to say nothing of military surpuls) --- so ban must be taking away my right to buy something cheap. -- like another movie ticket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 13:37
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Every time I hear "clip" when "magazine" is the appropriate term, I get bunged up. 
Using correct gun terms are one of the many things that separate gun people from the masses of the ill informed.  

Prayers sent to the families and those affected by this senseless tragedy. 


It will not happen again. ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2012 at 13:44
Flying airplanes is not guaranteed in the Constitution.  Bearing arms is.  That is the end of the argument. 
 
If Totalitarians want to take away the Second Amendment then they need to have a Constitutional Congress and try to change it. 
 
 
And even that might have dire consequences if a Free People feel threatened. 
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