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Cliche new scope conundrum

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 00:01
Dr Gonzo View Drop Down
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I thought I already had this problem licked, but not only did my scope never arrive, causing me to cancel my order, I'm almost glad it didn't now.  Let me explain. (((If you don't want to hear my sob story, skip to after the asterisks)))

I bought a FNAR about 3 weeks ago and have been antsy to see what it can do at the range.  I really, really want to pick up one of those new Viper Vortex PST 1-4 scopes when they (hopefully) debut this summer, but in the meantime I decided on a Burris XTR 1-4.  I ordered it through LaRue as part of a package deal that included an LT-104 QD, which ended up being one hell of a deal if you priced everything out separately.

I called up LaRue direct and asked if they had any 1-4 XTRs on the shelf.  The guy on the phone was really nice, went to the floor to check stock himself, and told me yes, they are in, but there was a 4 or 5 day wait on the mount.  I said no problem, if it wasn't in by the coming weekend, I could always postpone this match my coworker wanted to have.  I also told him it was cool as long as I could get it relatively quickly as I am going on terminal leave at the end of the month and will not only be moving, I may be taking a job pretty quickly that involves having some of my own gear, and I would like to be proficient with my stuff before I head out.

Fast forward to 8 days later, and still my credit card hadn't been charged.  I called up and asked about the status of my order and was told "8-10 days on the mount" this time.  As it was day 8, the guy on the phone said it would be just a couple more days.

Day 16 was today, and when I called to check on it I was quoted "maybe a couple of weeks."  There was a note on my order that I was moving soon, so the guy wanted to know if he could have my forwarding address.  I regretfully told him I had to cancel my order.

Now, I understand that LaRue is pretty busy right now with a big order for some guys overseas.  Mark LaRue put a note up (on ar15.com I think) speaking to the extended turn-around times, so I completely understand and have no problem taking a back seat to those guys... I just wish someone would have told me the truth at some point along the way, or even called me to see if I would mind waiting longer.  I felt pretty strung along.  But no matter, because at the end of the day I know what's important.

I got all impatient and went down to Bass Pro Shops to finally put a scope on my hog, which without a QD mount meant I ALSO had to purchase a new case on account of the FNAR hardcase being incredibly tight.  Anyway, I bugged the guy behind the counter for about and hour and a half and finally decided on the Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42.  However, when he went to install the thing, he had no rings capable of getting the bell to clear the extremely long picatiny top rail (for all intents and purposes, I've got to treat this thing like an AR-10 flat-top).  With the 42mm bell and the 1" tube, I was short of clearing in the front and back by about 4-5mm total, even with tall rings.  The only extra-high rings he had in were for 30mm tubes, so he put on a pair of peek-throughs that were waaaaaay too high.  with the height of the rail and the rings, my center was over 1.5 inches over the barrel, and that I just couldn't live with.  So, now I'm left with questions:

**********************************

I am looking for a scope for a)hunting, b)target plinking, and c)SHTF/zombie apocalypse, in that order.  For the hunting piece, I'm going to Michigan where the average engagement range is <12 yds, so something with a very low end.  For target plinking, I'd like to be able to reach out to 500 or 600 yards, but realistically I'll never see open land more than 200 or 300 yards unless I finally take that trip out to North Dakota to hunt.  Close quarters through 100 yards with likely be the bread and butter of this rifle, even though I basically want this to serve as a perimeter defense/DMR that can also hunt.  Cliche, no?  The scope that does everything!

I'd also like a 30mm tube and no larger than a 40mm bell, just  to help deal with the long rail.

I also need a line on how to pick out rings, as I will likely be ordering off the internet for my package now.  Ideally, I'd like to get the scope right off the barrel, as there are no BUIS or even a convenient way to hang some.

So far, I've got a couple things that may fit the bill-  Zeiss Conquest in 3-9, or maybe a Bushnell Elite 6500 1.5-8 or 2.5-16, although neither really offer a fantastic field of view @100 yds.  The Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 BDC really did impress me, but unless I can come up with a better ring arrangement I'd really prefer something with a 30mm tube. 

I don't know, any ideas?  I know this question gets asked, like, 8 times EVERY DAY... but I'd like to think I'm special - I also asked about rings!  That means I want an entire optics system, doesn't it?!?

Thank you all in advance for your replies, even if they're they same thing you all type every day over and over again but just worded differently Big Smile  Belive me, I understand... I have some dumb troops (and bosses) that need to be reminded of the same stuff constantly, saying the exactly same thing but just with different words, hoping it will stick...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 00:09
Dr Gonzo View Drop Down
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Oh yeah, I'm trying to cruise in under $700 if at all possible, mounting and all.  I'm willing to go a little over if I have to, the limit over depending on how much more capability I'm buying.

Also, the center on that setup with the peek-throughs was more than 2.5 inches high...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 01:19
koshkin View Drop Down
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Dark Lord of Optics

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For close range you really want something along the lines of 1-4x24 or thereabouts.  However, for shooting a little further out it is better to have something with a little more than 4x on the top end.

I think the optimal choice for you is this:

or if you want to have taller knobs:

However, since hunting is a high priority, I would go with a Euro Diamond (the first link).  6x is plenty to reach pretty far out there and 1.5x is nice to have on low end.

As far as the rings go, I think that a standard one-piece AR mount would place the scope a bit too high.

If you want a one-piece base, I think this should work all right:

Otherwise, most good quality rings will work.  You probably need high ones.  Personally, I have had good luck with TPS:

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 03:03
Dr Gonzo View Drop Down
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Thanks for the reply.

How much "faster" is the XTR's reticle over the lit German dot?  My mind just seems to work well with the #4 for some reason, but that .308 BDC looks pretty sweet as well, especially considering that horseshoe looks pretty damn fast.  Do you think it would get in the way or be too busy for up-close buck slaying?

Another question - what about the turrets?  Are the knobs on the hunter version essentially the same but just shorter, or are they some inconvenient coin-slot type?

Also, do you (or anyone else) have any experience with the Bushnell Elite 6500 1.5-8 or 2.5-16 scopes?  I haven't been able to find any reviews thus far.  Are they fairly new?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 03:21
koshkin View Drop Down
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Personally, I think that #4 is a slightly faster reticle than the one on the XTR.  While I like the horseshoe, I think their implementation of it is a little too thin.   However, XTR reticle is better for long range, while still fairly quick to acquire.

As far as the knobs go, Euro Diamond has finger adjustable knobs if memory serves me right.

I reviewed Elite 6500 2.5-16x42 a while back and it is one of my favourite allround scopes.  Here is that review.

I have not done a formal review of the 1.25-8x32, but it is a nice scope.  However, for allround use, I think 1.5-6x40 is a better configuration.  Besides, I like the #4 reticle with illuminated dot.

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 13:31
Dr Gonzo View Drop Down
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Is the reticle on the 1.5-6 XTR on the first focal plane?  I'm having trouble deciding between the XTR and the Euro Diamond.  I think I want some kind of holdover, but I don't necessarily need the bigger knobs or the extra $100 on the price tag...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 13:52
koshkin View Drop Down
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Dark Lord of Optics

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Originally posted by Dr Gonzo Dr Gonzo wrote:

Is the reticle on the 1.5-6 XTR on the first focal plane?  I'm having trouble deciding between the XTR and the Euro Diamond.  I think I want some kind of holdover, but I don't necessarily need the bigger knobs or the extra $100 on the price tag...

No, it is a SFP reticle.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 14:02
Dr Gonzo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:



No, it is a SFP reticle.


So the BDC/holdover on this scope would just serve as a point of reference at a specific magnification, no?  Being on the FFP would provide a constant frame of reference as I understand it... grrrrr, now I'm really confused as to which to buy.

I'll be honest, I'm pretty new to all of this.  My experience so far is with iron sights and fixed power glass.  I'm getting into this as more of a hobby than anything else, but I still want something I can trust and rely on if I get myself into some sh*t, either on accident or on purpose Howdy

Thanks again for your help, by the way.

Oh, do both of these Burris scopes share the twisting eyepiece of the 1-4 XTR model?  That just seems like a PITA if you have flip-up caps, in my opinion.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 14:11
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If you are new to this, then I would suggest you do not overly complicate your life and go with a simple scope and simple reticle, i.e. Euro Diamond.

The holdover points on the XTR will be accurate at the highest magnification which is 6x in this case, so it is not much of a hindrance.  While I generally prefer FFP scopes, in the case of the XTR, I do not mind the SFP reticle as much because of the magnification range.

The eyepiece does rotate when you change magnification, if memory serves me right, but I do not have the scope in front of me, so I can't easily check.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 16:27
Dr Gonzo View Drop Down
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Ok, I ended up going with a Bushnell Elite 6500 1.25-8x32.

While I do prefer both the german-dot and the BDC on the XTR, the Bushnell and it's multi-plex (with overnight shipping) was considerably cheaper.  It has 2x more magnification on the top end, with the same FOV at the low end.  Bushnell's site lists 6 in of eye relief (although, I don't know how much it changes between low and high magnification, which might be a slight problem...).  And finally, the rotating eye piece, while seemingly insignificant, killed it for me.

As far as a quick-reaction/zombie killer, I still plan on getting the Vortex Viper PST 1-4 when they come out this summer, granted they stay in their price point and live up to the stupid-high expectations I think people are heaping upon them already.

Thanks again for your help, koshkin.  If I ever run into any more questions or inquisitive friends, I will direct them straight to you.

Oh, speaking of which, I have a buddy with a .50 Windrunner who is currently looking for an optic.  Is there anything out there for around $1,000 that could handle being on that gun?  He's already sold himself on something Nightforce, but he just bought my motorcycle so it'll be a while before he can into something like that again.  Any ideas for a "budget" .50 scope and mount that won't be completely destroyed by that rig?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 16:31
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SuperSniper is my first thought for a 50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 17:06
koshkin View Drop Down
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For durability per dollar, one of the Super Sniper scopes would be the way to go.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2010 at 16:09
Dr Gonzo View Drop Down
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I got the scope mounted and I'm really happy with it.  It actually fit with a set of Weaver low rings, so it's right down off the barrel.  The crosshairs are canted a bit due to a crappy mount job by the local Bass Pro Shop, so sighting it was an exercise in frustration, but I eventually got it dialed in.

The only dig I have about this scope is the reticle.  The fine part is really hard to see, especially on higher magnification.  I called Bushnell before I ordered it to ask if there were any options for the reticle, but he pretty much shot me down right there (he also told me I'd probably need a set of "1 inch medium" rings to mount it...).  Just out of curiosity, why do scope manufacturers not offer certain reticles on some scopes?  Is it really so cost-prohibitive to grind a reticle in a different size?  I'm not wise at all in the ways of scope manufacturing, but it just seems to me that some guys are trading a lot of business by not having a custom ordering option, like Leupold does.  I'm sure some people exclusively buy Leupold just for the fact that they can get their favorite reticle installed on a scope that meets all of their needs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 10:10
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As far as rings go, I got a set of tactical something or others from Midway-special-. They are 3 screw w/ hex nut secureing the ring to mount clamp. Very heavy duty and not expensive. Im not at home so i dont have particulars, but I go them on sale for use on a AR. Burris and quite stout. Worth checking out.
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