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Chrono 7mm Mag Loads?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 22:17
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Just got a chrongraph and took it to the range with my 7mm Mag loads.  For the longest I thought my rounds were moving at 3050 to 3100fps.  I found out, today, they are only moving at 2808fps. 

Looking at all of my reloading books, they show 63g of RL22 will move a 160 nosler Accubond at 3000fps +/-.   These are max loads.
 
I would like to shoot my 7mm Mag above 3000fps but I don't want to add more powder and blow up my rifle... or me.
 
Anyone have a handload for a 7mm Mag 160g  chronoed at 3000 +? Head Banger
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 22:37
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Trays 7940 what barrel length did the manufacture use to produce the 3050-3100FPS?  Next question, are you getting high pressure signs showing on your cases? At where are you getting your load data?

edited for fat fingers!!!  LOL


Edited by Steelbenz - August/14/2009 at 22:38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 07:59
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Alliant powders (the manufacturer of RL22) lists 65 gr as max with the 160 gr bullet
 
Speer lists 65 gr RL22 as max with their 160 gr bullets
 
Sierra lists 65.2 RL22 as max with their 160 gr bullets
 
Swift bullets lists 65.5 gr RL22 as max with their 160 gr bullets
 
Barnes bullets lists 63 gr RL22 as max with their 160 gr X bullets
 
Nosler lists 63 gr RL22 as max with the 160 gr bullet
 
 
I got this information out of the 7 mag booklet called One Book / One Caliber from www.loadbooks.com . Steve's pages also listed 66 gr RL22 as max with the 160 gr bullets.
 
If you have a large jump to the lands that will also lower the velociy.
 
I don't have a lot of experience with the 7 mags and have only reloaded for 3 of them.  In one of them that I did the most work on, a Browning A bolt, I had to get up to 65.5 gr RL22 to get 3000 fps.  About 3050 fps with the 160 gr bullet is max with the 160 gr bullet in the 7 mags.  That is where the extractor groove brass flow marks start showing up on the case heads and the bolt starts to get stiff.
 
By contrast my 280AI will hit 3100 fps with the 160's with nary a sign of pressure.  Big Grin
 
WORK UP TO THESE LEVELS POSTED.  EACH GUN IS DIFFERENT AND YOUR GUN COULD DEVELOP PRESSURE EARLIER THAN MINE.  LOOK FOR PRESSURE SIGNS AS YOU WORK UP.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 09:27
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Originally posted by sakomato sakomato wrote:

By contrast my 280AI will hit 3100 fps with the 160's with nary a sign of pressure.  Big Grin



That's cruel, but kinda funny.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 10:06
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i suppose that has something to do with the belt???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 10:13
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Hey pyro, I must confess that I feel about 7 mags like you feel about 270's.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 10:15
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really? how come?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 10:35
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I set everything up like the Nosler book had. 
They used a 24" barrel. 
I have a Remington 700 with a 24" barrel.  I have no signs of pressure, at this time. 
My COAL is 3.290
Fed 215 primers
Winchester cases
160g Accubond Bullets
63g RL22 powder
 
I might try not seatting the bullet so far down... or maybe I need to seat them farther down?
Maybe I got some bad powder...
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 10:41
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  T,
  The trouble is Nosler uses pressure bbls that are at minimum SAAMI specs so they reach higher pressures/velocities with less powder than your production bbl does.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 10:51
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Bingo!!!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 11:00
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Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

  T,
  The trouble is Nosler uses pressure bbls that are at minimum SAAMI specs so they reach higher pressures/velocities with less powder than your production bbl does.

they do that for marketing reasons i assume, since in this country speed sells.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 11:13
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  To be honest I believe all reload data is developed using SAAMI minimum spec bbls. It's just that Nosler publishes the data obtained using them where as the others(maybe not all)publish data that they obtained by shooting their pressure bbl loads in production or sometimes custom rifles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 11:18
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I have to wonder if the loads listed in Nosler manuals and others, is throttled back because of the rifles chambered for the 7 mag such as levers and autos.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 11:29
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

I have to wonder if the loads listed in Nosler manuals and others, is throttled back because of the rifles chambered for the 7 mag such as levers and autos.

i would assume yes roy, although if you look at stuff like the 45-70 they have separate pages for old actions etc. and new ones. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 11:34
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  Good point pyro.  I guess all the load developers would have to do is add a warning with the data that the loads are to be used in modern bolt action rifles(not that older actions would matter).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 11:37
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Safety and CYA is always at play.

Trays, I have an old issue of Handloader magazine with an article named "Handloads that Work" by John Barsness that listed a load of 66 grs of R-22 or H-4831 using 160's for a velocity "slightly over 3000 in a 24 inch barrel".
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 11:40
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in the case of the 45-70 i could see where that would matter, other than that i totally agree earl.  the other point they need to make is in the case of the the .257 roberts vs the .257 roberts+P there is a slight difference. it seems to me that most of the manuals i have now are pretty good about not giving a lawyer load. they seem to get you about as close to true max as one would dare, obviously working up to your rifles maximum's is the safest bet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 11:45
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 No doubt,Roy!  Probably just as well to. Really though,just how much more velocity can they or even need to eek out of the popular rounds?  Listen to some of the stories of the WSM's and the pressure signs with factory ammo.  Just makes no sense. 
 
 Pyro,TO ME Noslers velocities are the max.  After all,the loads they develop and equipment they use follow SAAMI standards.


Edited by 300S&W - August/15/2009 at 11:51
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i hear you earl, when i first bought the nosler book and started thumbing through its pages i thought to myself "damn these guys are loading em plenty hot" when i started to load my .375H&H even some of the loads in the hornady manual were as full as full  could be.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 12:12
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Originally posted by Trays 7940 Trays 7940 wrote:

I set everything up like the Nosler book had. 
They used a 24" barrel. 
I have a Remington 700 with a 24" barrel.  I have no signs of pressure, at this time. 
My COAL is 3.290
Fed 215 primers
Winchester cases
160g Accubond Bullets
63g RL22 powder
 
I might try not seatting the bullet so far down... or maybe I need to seat them farther down?
Maybe I got some bad powder...
 
........................Not earlier mentioned is the Lyman 49th edition. They show as maximum, 63.0 gr RL22 @ 2931 fps with a 160 gr Swift A-Frame. COAL is 3.290" with a PSI pressure of 59,300 from a 24" barrel.
 
If you`re not showing pressure signs using 63 gr, then keep going up carefully 1/2 gr at a time until you start to see signs of pressure. Then back off 1/2 grain and consider that as max for your rifle and then chrony that loading. You just need a little extra powder to get closer to the 3000 fps mark. Some rifles need a little extra powder to get book velocities. You may also have a slightly slower bore.
 
Using the RL22, try different bullets, chrony them and then compare those velocities with the Nosler A/Bs.
 
Another good source for re-load info is on the "reloadersnest" site (rifle section), where posters have submitted loads, the components used and their chrony results in most cases. I have duplicated a few loads from that site and posted them there. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 12:16
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by Trays 7940 Trays 7940 wrote:

I set everything up like the Nosler book had. 
They used a 24" barrel. 
I have a Remington 700 with a 24" barrel.  I have no signs of pressure, at this time. 
My COAL is 3.290
Fed 215 primers
Winchester cases
160g Accubond Bullets
63g RL22 powder
 
I might try not seatting the bullet so far down... or maybe I need to seat them farther down?
Maybe I got some bad powder...
 
........................Not earlier mentioned is the Lyman 49th edition. They show as maximum, 63.0 gr RL22 @ 2931 fps with a 160 gr Swift A-Frame. COAL is 3.290" with a PSI pressure of 59,300 from a 24" barrel.
 
If you`re not showing pressure signs using 63 gr, then keep going up carefully 1/2 gr at a time until you start to see signs of pressure. Then back off 1/2 grain and consider that as max for your rifle and then chrony that loading. You just need a little extra powder to get closer to the 3000 fps mark. Some rifles need a little extra powder to get book velocities. You may also have a slightly slower bore.
 
Using the RL22, try different bullets, chrony them and then compare those velocities with the Nosler A/Bs.
 
Another good source for re-load info is on the "reloadersnest" site (rifle section), where posters have submitted loads, the components used and their chrony results in most cases. I have duplicated a few loads from that site and posted them there. 

be very careful with reloaders nest data, some of that stuff i swear is booby trapped info. best that you just work up loads for your rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 12:34
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Luckily, I haven`t gotten booby trapped over there yet! I always started lower and worked up using that info from there. Tray is already at 63 gr RL22 with no pressure signs. He can go up a 1/2 grain at a time from that point.
 
One 7mm Rem mag load posted there gets 2960 fps using 62 gr RL22, with a 160 gr AB from a 24" barrel.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 12:38
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If you loaded a 7 mag or 300 WM to the same pressures as the short mags are factory loaded, the short mags would'nt match them for velocity. Their only advatange would be a shorter lighter rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 12:58
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Their only advatange would be a shorter lighter rifle.
...........I would certainly know about that!............................... How true! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 13:28
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10-4 all.  I will work up 1/2 grain at a time and see where it gets me.  I think I am going to reshoot my current recipe, just to make sure I didnt do something wrong. Will let ya'll know what happens....Wink
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