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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2009 at 10:00
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 Just wondering about opinions on the best coating treatment for a rough chrome moly rifle barrel other than standard bluing.  The rifle will be used for mostly hunting situations and some 300-500  yard target shooting.  Teflon?  Gun Kote?  Duracoat?  Advantages and drawbacks to respective treatments and coatings?
 
 Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2009 at 11:52
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 If it is rough, then just parkerize it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2009 at 18:11
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Some would describe the condition of what I have termed "rough" as "white".   It will be a SAE4150 steel barrel that will be in need of corrosive protection.  It also is fluted.  I originally planned  to parkerize then Gun Kote as this barrel will be a big part of the only custom rifle I have ever had built and I don't particularly like the appearance of parkerized metal.  I would like the hardest and toughest protection as the flutes will provide an edge that might be prone to scratching.

 
 Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2009 at 19:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2009 at 08:03
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Not too many opinions expressed on this subject I see.  Maybe I will ask another question.  Does anyone have any opinions on the scratch resistant qualities of rust blueing.  Also are scratches easily repaired or does the whole barrel require re-blueing to make the scratch repair appear uniform with the rest of the barrel?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2009 at 13:12
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I prefer parkerized, and I like the camo dipped as well. Now for a truly beautiful rifle, a well polished bluing is the thing. bluing can be touched up easily enough, with practice, and trial and error. There are several products available to make doing so easier.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2009 at 22:10
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As far as durability goes, I don't think any current "spray and bake" finish can match the wear resistance of Cerakote.  I have 2 rifles done in Cerakote and I can tell you it is extremely scratch resistant, and it looks good too, with many different colors available.  Here is a rifle I had finished in Titanium Blue Cerakote:

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2009 at 22:11
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Another with the action done in SOCOM Blue and Titanium Cerakote can be seen on pg 2 of this thread:
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11998&KW=ultra+coatings&PN=2




Edited by RifleDude - January/20/2009 at 22:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2009 at 22:24
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Ted, did you have the entire bolt finished as well?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2009 at 22:41
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Ted, did you have the entire bolt finished as well?
Not on the first rifle above, no.  On the carbon barreled SOCOM BLUE / Titanium CK finished rifle in the link above, yes.  I have cycled about 200 rounds through it so far after the Cerakote was applied, and the finish hasn't rubbed off the bolt anywhere yet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2009 at 22:44
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The only negative remark I have heard is that if you have a bolt gun that is somewhat tight, Cerakote is not the slickest think out there. I don't know this first hand which is why I asked.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2009 at 22:55
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

The only negative remark I have heard is that if you have a bolt gun that is somewhat tight, Cerakote is not the slickest think out there. I don't know this first hand which is why I asked.

Not sure about that.  Since that rifle is a modified 700, bolt to action i.d. clearance isn't super tight.  It works well for my purposes.  FWIW, the stuff is supposed to be self-lubricating.

BTW this is off-topic, but since I bought a new computer, I can't figure out how to hotlink with this new computer (Mac OS), so links like the one above have to be copied and pasted in the address bar.  If anyone has some advice on how to hotlink with a Mac, send me a PM. Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 07:19
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Very sharp looking rifle!   Just wondering how the barrel was prepared for the Cerekote application.  Do you think it would be worth the time and money to parkerize the barrel before the Cerekote is applied?
 
 Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 08:12
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

[QUOTE=Roy Finn]

BTW this is off-topic, but since I bought a new computer, I can't figure out how to hotlink with this new computer (Mac OS), so links like the one above have to be copied and pasted in the address bar.  If anyone has some advice on how to hotlink with a Mac, send me a PM. Thanks!
 
Try this:
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 08:37
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Originally posted by dougedwards dougedwards wrote:

Very sharp looking rifle!   Just wondering how the barrel was prepared for the Cerekote application.  Do you think it would be worth the time and money to parkerize the barrel before the Cerekote is applied?
 
 Doug
 
No, it wouldn't be worth the time and money to do anything prior to Cerakote application.  The metal to be finished is fine grit blasted prior to application, and whoever applies the finish will do the metal prep as part of the finish process.  Keep in mind that regardless of color chosen, Cerakote is always a matte finish. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 08:38
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Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

[QUOTE=Roy Finn]

BTW this is off-topic, but since I bought a new computer, I can't figure out how to hotlink with this new computer (Mac OS), so links like the one above have to be copied and pasted in the address bar.  If anyone has some advice on how to hotlink with a Mac, send me a PM. Thanks!
 
Try this:
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2009 at 10:16
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I would like to second RifleDude's regard for Cerakote. I have had several rifles done in it now, and it looks good, is pretty tough, and in my experience does tend to slick-up an action.
 
Wih hard use it will wear through a little bit, around the corners and other places blueing tends to wear. But it holds up a lot better than either hot or rust blue, and better than most other modern finishes. The only thing I've tried that's tougher is titanium nitride coating, but that has other problems, notably that if applied a little too thickly it makes an action very tough to work, and it does NOT slicken up with use very easily, unlike Cerakote.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2009 at 10:40
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Titanium nitride is indeed more wear resistant than Cerakote.  It is the coating used on Desert Eagle pistols, as well as cutting tools used for machining.  It's over 65 Rc hardness.  Remington's Trynite finish on their XCR rifle is a similar finish.  The other issues with titanium nitride is there are fewer companies that can apply it to firearms since it is a vapor deposition process that requires expensive equipment, and it's expensive to have done.
 
Another finish option that has similar wear properties to TiN is Armoloy, which is a hard industrial chromium finish.  It has a matte grey appearance.  The main issue with it is to my knowledge, it's only available in one color -- grey.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2009 at 12:02
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Ti-ni needs to be plated under vacuum.  To do it in a small lot is not cost effective.  To do it in a large lot means that quality control is difficult, it is hard to get even coverage. That is why Robar does not do Ti, as per Robbie Barkman. 

Why not just hard chrome the thing???  It will look like stainless.  Get the barrel laped and then hard chrome the gun.  With most barrels you will not notice the groups opening up very much, but it will double the life of the barrel.  That is why you see it in things like machinegun barrels. That gets you protection inside and outside the gun.
 
We go back to my orginal advice and just parkerize the gun.  That gets the inside of the gun protected too.  It also preps the outside of the gun for whatever coating you want.
 
You can just paint the thing... Call up Robar or Armaloy!!! Robar does NP3 and Roguard which are good products.  I have guns with both coatings, they are good, but not not perfect. They will wear.  The guy at Armaloy has been great when I've had questions. If it is not hard chrome, it will show wear.  Hard chrome will show wear if you use it enough. 
 
Ford's was doing some black chrome.  When I talked to Robbie years ago he said that he had problems when they tried.  Thus they do not offer it.  His summary was it not bright and shiny with will show wear.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2009 at 12:43
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so  you guys are telling me that the price tag on the m700xcr is justified then?? i kinda wondered why they were so expensive i understand now.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2009 at 12:49
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I may have misunderstood you, silver, but just to clarify, Armoloy IS a hard chrome finish.

In all honesty, I truly believe Cerakote is the best option for the stated purpose, as mentioned earlier.  It is more durable than parkerizing.  It is reportedly the most wear resistant of all the spray on finishes, only surpassed by the hard plated finishes, and my experience with it sure bears this out.  In addition, it's not too hard to find companies who apply it, it's not too expensive to have it done, and it's offered in many different colors.  It is the standard finish used on the NoslerCustom, Serengeti, and Empire rifles, just to name a few.
 
This is the outfit that I used for Cerakote finish.  They did a great job on my rifles.  They used to be called "Fit 4 Duty," the original company who applied the finish to the NoslerCustom rifles.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2009 at 12:52
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

so  you guys are telling me that the price tag on the m700xcr is justified then?? i kinda wondered why they were so expensive i understand now.
 
It depends.  If you value a super-durable finish, then yes, it may be worth the difference in price tag.  The trynite finish is not a TiN finish, but it is similar, applied using the same process -- physical vapor deposition, done in a vacuum furnace.  It is definitely super durable and corrosion resistant.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2009 at 19:04
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My bad... It is Metaloy that has been great about answering my questions.  Armaloy is also a hard chrome. Now, let me re-phrase this... Any coating other than hard chrome will show wear on the high spots. Even hard chrome can show wear under extreme conditions, like moving parts without an oil film. If you have a marine application, say you live near the coast,  then you want it hard chromed.   
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