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Choosing powder good for both .270Win and .308Win

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 19:50
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HI guys,
 
Well I decided to jump in with both feet.  Started last week in the rifles scope forum by eating my left boot on my first post, so I might as well chew on the other one here, now.
 
I decided I going whole hog and will start re-loading for the first time.  I have a new Savage 110FP in .270 Win and my son has a new Stevens .308 win.  I have ordered a Lee loader kit and have just finished reviewing the Hornady 7th Ed. on reloading. 
 
I was given about half a box of Hornady 130gr SSTs in 270 so Thats were I am going to start.  My son wants to use 165gr SSTs in his 308.  We both think they are a good compromise between hunt and target, princibly hunting.
 
1) According to hornady book the 270 performs best using IMR4831 powder for the 130gr SST.  The 308 listing for SST's powders does not have any common with the 270 listing and it looks like the 308 needs a faster burning powder.  Can somebody recommend a single powder that will work well for both or am I asking for trouble?
 
2) I thinking of using CCI BR2 primers because I've read that they are very consistant.
Please share your thoughts on primers.
 
3) I have about 40 of each, once shot brass from both Remington and Winchester Super X cartridges for each caliber.  Which is the better brass or are they both junk and if so which brands are preferred?
 
I just found out that there is a gun show at the fairgrounds this weekend so I would love to be able to get the powder and primers there so I don't have haz-Mat shipping fees.
What should I beware of at the show?  Are powders and primers dated? 
 
Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated!!!
 
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Bud
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 20:06
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I load both and have good luck with both imr4895/h4895.....varget.
 imr 4064 is also good my favorite in the 308?


Edited by rifle looney - January/06/2009 at 20:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 20:15
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Varget is an excellent powder in both. I have luck in the 270 with 130s and Varget and Varget is probably the best 308 powder with 150,165,168s.
Were I you I would not bother with BR primers, CCI 250s (magnum) work well with Varget.
Powder is cheap so perhaps buying a can of H4831SC for the 270 would be prudent. 59.5 gr and a good 130 bullet has been a favorite load forever.
Both brands of brass are fine. Winchester is generally harder and has thinner necks but either will work well in your rifles.
As long as powder and primers are sealed and match the pictures that their makers show on the web, no sweat.
P.S. Varget will also work well in your 8X57.  Good shooting!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 20:33
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As far as one powder for both, you will compromise the efficiency of both the 270 and the 308. For the reasons stated, the 270 performs best with slower powders like 4350, 4831 (IMR and Hogdon) and the 308 performs better with faster powders such as 4041, Varget, 4895. I would plan on buying two different powders. As far as the BR primers are concerned you really don't need to buy match primers. I have never seen primers make a difference with regard to accuracy in a hunting rifle. Brass from the domestic suppliers is pretty much the same regarding quality. Brass from Lapua and Norma is more consistant (weight, internal volume and dimensional) however it is a bit more expensive and probably not worth the cost for hunting load purposes. If I had to pick Remington or Winchester, I'd probably go Winchester because I feel that their brass is a little harder. I wouldn't be concerned with getting dated primers or powder. Stored correctly they last(almost)forever.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2009 at 22:20
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Get a good scale and check weight set .  There are enough lot variations that the cup loaders from Lee may be a couple of grains off.
 
You will also find that a hand primer is easier to use than the Lee Loader.  You will also want a good set of steel calipers like Mintoyo (sp) or Starrett.
 
These are all areas that you want to spend money on and get right the first time.  It is a safety issue.  Kabooms are not cheap.
 
As a sidebar, when I travel to Pa to see family, it looks populated enough that I would want  bullets to start dropping  fast after a couple hundred yards.  I think a flat base with a wider tip may also fit into you mix.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 09:07
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Thank all of you for the input!
 
I already have a high end Caliper & Mic set from Brown & Sharpe plus digital scales.
 
The Lee loader kit I ordered does have the primer attachment for the press instead of the hand primer though.  I plan on measuring everything digitally or with a balance until the cups and metering dispenser have proven themselves to be repeatable and accurate.
I'll give the primer attachment a try, if its too much hassle I'll spend the $20-25 for the hand primer.
 
I wasn't even considering my 8mm but it makes great sense to include it too.
Given that I think I will heed the advice and get Vargit for the 8mm & 308
and use the slower IMR4831 powder for the 270.
 
Hornady warns against using mag primers for his load data cause it will cause excessive pressures.  From what little data I've seen no mention of the primer used was made.
 
So the concensus is BR primers aren't necessary but some of you use Mags.
 
What is everybodies preference in primers? make & type LR or LRM?
 
Again thanks for the great input!!
Wow, I am in full spend mode!!! SOMEBODY PLEASE STOP ME!!!  Just wait till after the Gun Show.
 
Bud
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i use a lot of magnum primers but i shoot 3 magnums and its generally cold in minnesota during deer season so using a magnum primer can be a good thing. the only rifle i use standard large rifle primers for is my 22-250. my brother in law has had good luck with reloader 19 in his .270 with 130gr bullets
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 09:19
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For me, I use Federal 210's in everything except my 300 Win Mag. There used to be a school of thought that using mag primers in extremely cold temps help ensure proper ignition. I have used the 210's in my 30/06, 280 Ackley and my 300 Win Mag while hunting in Sask and never had a mis-fire.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 09:29
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ive shot standard primers in all of my standard stuff in cold weather also and never had a problem. i like cci primers myself, but the federals seem to be easier to clean up after, they leave less residue in the primer cup.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2012 at 15:53
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here is my little receipe for the 270 and 308
 
powder - Varget
 
loads 42 GR
 
shot- 270=140 hornady SST , 308-= 168gr Hornady Match
 
Rem 9 1/2 primers
 
 
the 308 is a carbine, and the 270 is a bolt
both sighted in for 300 yards
so far the 270 has taken 5 whitetail deer in two years.  the 308 first time taking it out next week (gave the wife the 270 ) and gonna hunt with my 308.
 
the 270 anything within the 300 yards was dead dropped in its spot   i've done about 5000+ rounds in those loads and they work great only problem i have is when imr powder sells out ppl are buying the varget as a subsitute
 
enjoy and safe shooting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2012 at 00:08
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The same powder for both won't do the best in either.
 
A classic powder for the .270 is H4831 but R22 also works very well and might produce higher velocities for bullets in the 130 to 150 grain range. If I had to shoot 110's I would use H4350. The .270 is a high velocity - high pressure round and some folks like to use lots of H4831 or R22 with 130's to get magnum like performance. I use loads from the Hodgdon or Alliant web site.
 
Varget is a popular powder for the .308 for 150's or 165's and max loads using are usually slightly compressed with no bad effects.  A few years back I used IMR 4320, this has a very close burning rate  to Varget, both powders have short grains and meter well through powder measures. Velocites with 150's are close to the .30-06 at about 2900 fps.
 
I mostly use CCI 250 (large rifle magnum) primers with rounds like the .270 with slow burning powders.
 
I mostly use WLR (large rifle) primers with the .308.
 
I like Winchester brass over Remington because I think it lasts longer and has slightly more capacity, less split necks and enlarged primer pockets.
 
There are some advantages for hunting with a short action, 20 or 22 inch barrel, light weight accurate .308 for normal hunting ranges that are usually between 75 to 400 yds.
 
A few hunters that I know that have shot many large animals up to bears, elk and African game with .270's and 130's using H4831 and R22.
 
Take your pick.
 
IMR 4831 would work just fine. For some reason if you could not get that R19 would also be good.
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2012 at 05:46
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I gotta tell ya.  I don't like having umteen different powders on my reloading bench.  It's too easy to grab the wrong one and Kablammy.....
 
I love Varget.  It's temperature stable fairly clean and is middle of the road burn rate wise.  Dropping loads is not an issue since I use a Lyman 1200 autodispenser.
 
I have successful worked up loads for my 223s, 270W, 308 and even my 300WM.  Granted you need to keep to the lighter bullets to use Varget in the 300WM but she shoots just fine.
 
All my loads produce sub MOA groups too...  This is plenty fine enough for me and I only have one powder on my bench...  If I were Bench Resting ... yes I'd go the extra miles both in equipment and reloading to achieve a single hole load but I have neither the time, money or the patience for that...Cool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2012 at 07:42
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I, too, like Varget for a lot of rounds, Bud.  With that said, I've noticed a little lot inconsistency lately, so be careful, especially with the cartridges that typically like slower burning powders (like the 270 and especially the 300 WM).  With the larger cartridges similar in cartridge diameter like 9.3x62, which is similar to a 35 Whelan, varget works great, and I can load to max charge with no issues whatsoever in my CZ.  With my 300WM, I've settled on Reloder 22.  It gives me Sub MOA with Barnes 175LRX at around 3100fps.

For my .223 and 6.8SPC with lighter bullets, I like Re10x.  I'm still looking for something that works at stated volume for my tight-chambered .376 steyr.  Varget seems to be a little on the fast side for that cartridge, but I tend to use it for pretty much everything else.  Glad you found a good compromise, in any event.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2012 at 09:28
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

I gotta tell ya.  I don't like having umteen different powders on my reloading bench.  It's too easy to grab the wrong one and Kablammy.....
 
I love Varget.  It's temperature stable fairly clean and is middle of the road burn rate wise.  Dropping loads is not an issue since I use a Lyman 1200 autodispenser.
 
I have successful worked up loads for my 223s, 270W, 308 and even my 300WM.  Granted you need to keep to the lighter bullets to use Varget in the 300WM but she shoots just fine.
 
All my loads produce sub MOA groups too...  This is plenty fine enough for me and I only have one powder on my bench...  If I were Bench Resting ... yes I'd go the extra miles both in equipment and reloading to achieve a single hole load but I have neither the time, money or the patience for that...Cool

if you saw all the powders i keep you would shake your head. i prefer to have a huge selection of powders on hand, im a tinkerer type of reloader, im always looking for something better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2012 at 10:06
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We'll put that on the marker of the crater that used to be your house..... Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2012 at 10:16
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i dont reload in my house. and i only take one pound of powder out of the storage locker at a time. ive never put the wrong powder in my dispenser before. im very careful.
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For that I'm truly glad!!!  I'm praying that mistake never happens!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2012 at 10:58
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i just taught a co-worker of mine how to reload a month ago, i couldnt stress enough to him how you have to be completely focused on what your doing when you reload. if you dont, you could very easily kill yourself or a loved one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2012 at 11:37
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That a fact, Jack!  No distractions!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2012 at 01:11
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After years of experimentation I now use 4 rifle powders - IMR 8208, Varget, H4350, and R19.
 
I either sold or rebarreled the H1000 using rifles (like "over bore"). At one point I had some 10 different kinds of rifle powders and could not see much actual advantage in that much variety. I mostly use either WLR (Winchester Large Rifle) or CCI 250 (LR mag) primers.
 
I shoot my .308 Win because it is dependibly accurate, uses moderate amounts of Varget, and has a long barrel life.
 
At his point:
 
.204 Ruger, .20 Practical, .22-250 (53 gr) -- IMR 8208
.22-250 (68 & 75 gr) -- H4350
.243 -- H4350 (87 gr), R19 (105 gr)
6mm AI -- R19 (87 gr)
.308 -- Varget (150-5, 165-8, 175)
.30-06 -- Varget (150 gr), H4350 (168, 175, 180)
6.5 - 06 -- H4350 (100 gr) , R19 120-123 (H4350 for moderate vel low vel spread 140 target loads).
 
H4350 gets the most use -- about 70%.
 
Bigger than .30 cal - H4350 - .338's, .375's
 
There are possibly a million combinations that could be used and components are becoming more pricy.
 
I used R19 with 130's in my .270 and it worked very well.
 
Varget and H4350 have the same color, green gray and the grain sizes are different but not that much different. A case full of Varget in a load intended for H4350 would guarantee damage at least or more and loading for the .30-06 demands lots of attention as either Varget or H4350 are used.
 
As mentioned best to retrieve only one container from the powder stash at one time and pay attention and isolate any distractions.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2012 at 05:54
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

if you saw all the powders i keep you would shake your head. i prefer to have a huge selection of powders on hand, im a tinkerer type of reloader, im always looking for something better.
 
MMmmmm....Boots the mad Scientist....sounds dangerous....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2012 at 07:59
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Originally posted by Stevey Ducks Stevey Ducks wrote:

After years of experimentation I now use 4 rifle powders - IMR 8208, Varget, H4350, and R19.
 
I either sold or rebarreled the H1000 using rifles (like "over bore"). At one point I had some 10 different kinds of rifle powders and could not see much actual advantage in that much variety. I mostly use either WLR (Winchester Large Rifle) or CCI 250 (LR mag) primers.
 
I shoot my .308 Win because it is dependibly accurate, uses moderate amounts of Varget, and has a long barrel life.
 
At his point:
 
.204 Ruger, .20 Practical, .22-250 (53 gr) -- IMR 8208
.22-250 (68 & 75 gr) -- H4350
.243 -- H4350 (87 gr), R19 (105 gr)
6mm AI -- R19 (87 gr)
.308 -- Varget (150-5, 165-8, 175)
.30-06 -- Varget (150 gr), H4350 (168, 175, 180)
6.5 - 06 -- H4350 (100 gr) , R19 120-123 (H4350 for moderate vel low vel spread 140 target loads).
 
H4350 gets the most use -- about 70%.
 
Bigger than .30 cal - H4350 - .338's, .375's
 
There are possibly a million combinations that could be used and components are becoming more pricy.
 
I used R19 with 130's in my .270 and it worked very well.
 
Varget and H4350 have the same color, green gray and the grain sizes are different but not that much different. A case full of Varget in a load intended for H4350 would guarantee damage at least or more and loading for the .30-06 demands lots of attention as either Varget or H4350 are used.
 
As mentioned best to retrieve only one container from the powder stash at one time and pay attention and isolate any distractions.
 

to each his own i guess, im the type thats never satisfied, so im always trying new combos. my curiosity must be quenched. i want to try to get the most out of my ammo that i can, plus isnt that the whole appeal to reloading?? why just settle for an ok load because you only want to use a couple different powders??? over the past 2 decades i burned hundreds of pounds of powder, and while i can probably count on one hand the powders ive had the best success with, doesnt mean i automatically set my mind that its the one for this gun. i myself have never had any success with varget or 4350. i did have excellent results with rl19 and rl22. imr 4064 has probably been one of my favorite powders for years, and 4831 isnt to bad either. at the same time im excited to try the new stuff, cfe .223 rl17 etc.
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