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Poll Question: Are cheap rifles as good as more costly ones
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [7.89%]
34 [89.47%]
1 [2.63%]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2007 at 23:02
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im talking like a stevens or a mossberg vs. a ruger or a kimber or something
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there are some exceptions to this rule however the new savage w/acutrigger isnt bad but the king of cheap rifles that are awesome performers has to be the 788 remington butt ugly cheap as hell but man can they shoot
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The rifle is still just a tool and the shooter is were it counts.

 

A Good Shooter can shoot any rifle with great results, but a Poor Shooter won't shoot better with a more expensive stick....

 

This range dependent of course...

 



Edited by TPS_Phil
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Originally posted by TPS_Phil TPS_Phil wrote:

Good Shooter and can shoot any rifle with great results....

 

Not sure I entirely agree with this statement.  Certainly a good shooter can wring more accuracy out of any given rifle than can a poor shooter - sometimes much more than would generally be believed but, there are some guns that simply won't shoot... for anyone.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/2007 at 13:18
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lucznik is 100% correct.  There are some rifles that are just lemons, period.  I've seen and shot several of them that no matter what accurizing trick or load was tried, they simply wouldn't shoot without replacing the barrel, truing the action, and other cost-prohibitive measures.  If a rifle has a really bad barrel...game over.

 

While the adage "you get what you pay for" certainly applies to rifles as with other things, there are some inexpensive rifles that shoot as well or better than very expensive rifles.  Savage is a good example of that.  Certain rifles can be expensive for many reasons -- level of ornamentation, quality of wood, fit and finish, brand reputation, rarity, mass vs. custom built, etc., some of which doesn't necessarily guarantee more accuracy.  It all depends on what criteria is used to judge what "just as good" means.  Every rifle in good functional condition, regardless of quality, will fire a cartridge, and if directed to the vitals of an animal, will kill said animal provided it's chambered in a suitable caliber.  So, if that is the only criteria for judging, "just as good," then yes, cheap rifles will usually work as well as expensive ones -- again, if they function properly to begin with. 

 

If you consider craftsmanship, finish quality, quality of materials, and/or beauty as the barometer for "just as good," then no, usually cheap rifles aren't as "good" as expensive rifles.  A company simply cannot build a rifle with the ultimate goal of cutting costs as much as possible and still build an heirloom type rifle.



Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/2007 at 13:39
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Originally posted by lucznik lucznik wrote:

Originally posted by TPS_Phil TPS_Phil wrote:

Good Shooter and can shoot any rifle with great results....

 

Not sure I entirely agree with this statement.  Certainly a good shooter can wring more accuracy out of any given rifle than can a poor shooter - sometimes much more than would generally be believed but, there are some guns that simply won't shoot... for anyone.

 

 

I agree with lucznik on his statement, but my thinking is practice with what you got and can afford to become the better shooter!

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i myself am very picky about accuracy, and i pride myself in my marksmanship, im no david tubb by any means but i know when its me and i know when its the rifle  i dont care how good a person gets if they have a lemon its not going to shoot, i too have been around some rifles that i scratched my head after i looked at the target and went WTF is that all about? it happens in anything manufactured every company world wide i dont care who or what they make they are subject to a failure here and there.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/2007 at 22:21
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yeah i agree rifle dude and i should have been less vauge so i will do another poll in the furture thanks for looking at it

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2007 at 17:52
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Ther is no better action made on the planet, than a Mark V Wby.  Pay for it and be happy.  But all the semi-custom or custom actions and they are still the same old thing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2007 at 16:56
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Ther is no better action made on the planet, than a Mark V Wby.  Pay for it and be happy.  But all the semi-custom or custom actions and they are still the same old thing.

 

???  That's a pretty strong statement, there, bud!

 

 

Totally agree that the MK V is well made, well finished, and makes a fine foundation for a hunting rifle.  I know you're a huge Wby fan, and I applaud your dedication.  But, c'mon "ALL the semi-custom or custom actions... still the same old thing?"  Have you personally used a wide range of custom and semi-custom actions from which to base your conclusion?  I've used and worked with many different semi-custom and custom actions, and one thing's for absolute certain -- they are usually made to much tighter tolerances, from superior materials, and overall are better designed for specific shooting applications than almost ALL factory rifle actions.  There's no way a MK V or any other factory action for that matter even remotely compares to a Stiller, Nesika, Borden, BAT, etc. custom action.  Not even in the same universe!  The MK V is a nice action... but it's still a mass production factory action with loose fit clearances compared to custom actions.  If Weatherby used the tedious, time-consuming manufacturing steps and held the tolerances of the custom actions, the standard Mark V would probably cost over $3000.  Since the average consumer isn't willing to pay that for a hunting rifle, Wby wisely uses essentially the same production methods and tolerances most rifle manufacturers use.  One can make logical arguments that one factory action is superior to another from a design standpoint, but the "real world" differences in practical functionality, longevity, unmodified accuracy potential, and strength is basically insignificant when they are all used as intended. 

 

We all have our sentimental favorites, which is a good thing.  Keeps the firearms industry vibrant and competitive.



Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2007 at 17:08
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Ther is no better action made on the planet, than a Mark V Wby.  Pay for it and be happy.  But all the semi-custom or custom actions and they are still the same old thing.

 

???  That's a pretty strong statement, there, bud!

 

 

Totally agree that the MK V is well made, well finished, and makes a fine foundation for a hunting rifle.  I know you're a huge Wby fan, and I applaud your dedication.  But, c'mon "ALL the semi-custom or custom actions... still the same old thing?"  Have you personally used a wide range of custom and semi-custom actions from which to base your conclusion?  I've used and worked with many different semi-custom and custom actions, and one thing's for absolute certain -- they are usually made to much tighter tolerances, from superior materials, and overall are better designed for specific shooting applications than almost ALL factory rifle actions.  There's no way a MK V or any other factory action for that matter even remotely compares to a Stiller, Nesika, Borden, BAT, etc. custom action.  Not even in the same universe!  The MK V is a nice action... but it's still a mass production factory action with loose fit clearances compared to custom actions.  If Weatherby used the tedious, time-consuming manufacturing steps and held the tolerances of the custom actions, the standard Mark V would probably cost over $3000.  Since the average consumer isn't willing to pay that for a hunting rifle, Wby wisely uses essentially the same production methods and tolerances most rifle manufacturers use.  One can make logical arguments that one factory action is superior to another from a design standpoint, but the "real world" differences in practical functionality, longevity, unmodified accuracy potential, and strength is basically insignificant when they are all used as intended. 

 

We all have our sentimental favorites, which is a good thing.  Keeps the firearms industry vibrant and competitive.

Still disagree.  I have only seen them in gunshops and were only impressive in their material formats.  The smoothness of their bolts and fit and finish did not seem any better.  One often forgets that with the modern machining tools and techniques available, that is why so many products, whether it be rifles, audio equipment, watches, mechanical equimpment, automobiles as well as just about any other product (to include rifle scopes) can be made at a much lesser cost at the same level of quality, than could be years ago.  An opinion is just that, an opinion.  I believe a Mark V action is as good as an Stiller, Borden or Bat.  All of the later are custom built actions made in limited production and should have closer tolerances, but I do not believe the tolerances are significantly better, to be a better action and because they are shiny, they are not as strong as the Mark V.  Maybe alot of benchrest shooters use them, but I am not sure alot of PHs use them.  Again, different products for different niches.  In fact, some of the prices for those actions are not bad and alot less expensive than buying a Mark V, from Wby.  Stolle Panda starts at 950.  Yeah, I guess if Stolle had to reproduce a Mark V on there machinery, it would cost 3000.  At any rate, we having differing opinions.  I would still rather drop a brand new Mark V into a custom rifle than any of the others, as many other people have done, including, many a profession gun writer, who lives and breaths guns all day long.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2007 at 18:15
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Take some blue dykem and brush it on the locking lugs of your MK V action, then work the bolt a couple times and see where the blue is worn off.  You will not find complete contact with all 9 lugs...guaranteed.  On a custom action, you will, because the lug abutments are lapped, and all the mating surfaces are cut on the same setup on the lathe after being indicated on center, ensuring complete concentricity of all i.d. to o.d. surfaces.  No factory action is machined this way, because it takes too much time to setup and the cycle time is much slower, which = greater cost.  Otherwise, why would anyone ever need to recut the barrel tenon threads on a factory action to get them on center, or any other "blueprinting" step used in accurizing?  Plus, most of the custom actions are far stronger than the MK V due to superior steels and superior heat treatment.

 

A MK V's bolt movement is very smooth because it uses the "full bolt" design where the o.d. of the lugs is the same diameter as the bolt.  This means there are no lug races cut into the receiver.  The smoothness and feel is the result of the design itself, not quality of manufacture.  The same applies to such actions as the Sauer 200/202.  Without the need for broaching lug races in the action, the bolt doesn't have as much wobble room when worked back and forth in the receiver.  With a 2 lug bolt, where the lug diameter is larger than the bolt body, the sloppier feel when the bolt is open is due to the fact you only have part of the bolt body and the small surface area of the 2 lugs making contact with the receiver vs. the entire bolt o.d. of the "full bolt" design.  While having the lugs the same diameter as the bolt makes for a very nice, smooth bolt, it has nothing to do with lockup clearances, which is the true measure of how well an action is made.  The standard 2 lug bolt may feel sloppier when worked, but that has no relation to how tightly it locks up when closed.  When the bolt is in locked position, a true custom action has 1/5 the amount of play between the bolt body and the mating surfaces in the receiver than any factory action made.  This isn't a criticism of the MK V but is the reality of factory production. 

 

As for strength, I hate to break it to you, but the whole 9-lug "strength advantage" thing is pure b.s.  The fact is -- and this has been proven by Gerry Geske with his 3-lug version of the "full bolt diameter" style custom action -- 3 lugs provide essentially all the strength of 9 lugs.  Plus, again, it is very difficult to get 9 lugs to bear evenly in the receiver.  Of course, the whole strength argument is academic anyway, because any commercial action is several times stronger than required when loads are held to max pressure limits.  In a way, a good case can be made that the Rem 700 and actions like it with fully enclosed bolt face are stronger than any other action, because in the event of catastrophic case head separation, there's no extractor cutout to provide a pathway for escaping gases to suddenly escape, and therefore blow the receiver apart.

 

This isn't meant to imply the MK V isn't a good action for a hunting rifle, because it is, and it has several virtues.  But, once you start using terms like "the best," you're covering a lot of ground occupied by some very fine actions, and you have to define:  "best for what?"



Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2007 at 18:20
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good stuff ted, i think i too have heard its very hard to get 9 lugs to work in perfect harmony all the time
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2007 at 06:30
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P, try blueing the lugs on your two and three lug guns, especially newer ones like that .280. You'll probably find that they aren't seating completely.

Besides, everyone knows that the M700 is the best factory bolt action

 

Doug



Edited by tahqua
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2007 at 08:29
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Take some blue dykem and brush it on the locking lugs of your MK V action, then work the bolt a couple times and see where the blue is worn off.  You will not find complete contact with all 9 lugs...guaranteed.  On a custom action, you will, because the lug abutments are lapped, and all the mating surfaces are cut on the same setup on the lathe after being indicated on center, ensuring complete concentricity of all i.d. to o.d. surfaces.  No factory action is machined this way, because it takes too much time to setup and the cycle time is much slower, which = greater cost.  Otherwise, why would anyone ever need to recut the barrel tenon threads on a factory action to get them on center, or any other "blueprinting" step used in accurizing?  Plus, most of the custom actions are far stronger than the MK V due to superior steels and superior heat treatment.

 

A MK V's bolt movement is very smooth because it uses the "full bolt" design where the o.d. of the lugs is the same diameter as the bolt.  This means there are no lug races cut into the receiver.  The smoothness and feel is the result of the design itself, not quality of manufacture.  The same applies to such actions as the Sauer 200/202.  Without the need for broaching lug races in the action, the bolt doesn't have as much wobble room when worked back and forth in the receiver.  With a 2 lug bolt, where the lug diameter is larger than the bolt body, the sloppier feel when the bolt is open is due to the fact you only have part of the bolt body and the small surface area of the 2 lugs making contact with the receiver vs. the entire bolt o.d. of the "full bolt" design.  While having the lugs the same diameter as the bolt makes for a very nice, smooth bolt, it has nothing to do with lockup clearances, which is the true measure of how well an action is made.  The standard 2 lug bolt may feel sloppier when worked, but that has no relation to how tightly it locks up when closed.  When the bolt is in locked position, a true custom action has 1/5 the amount of play between the bolt body and the mating surfaces in the receiver than any factory action made.  This isn't a criticism of the MK V but is the reality of factory production. 

 

As for strength, I hate to break it to you, but the whole 9-lug "strength advantage" thing is pure b.s.  The fact is -- and this has been proven by Gerry Geske with his 3-lug version of the "full bolt diameter" style custom action -- 3 lugs provide essentially all the strength of 9 lugs.  Plus, again, it is very difficult to get 9 lugs to bear evenly in the receiver.  Of course, the whole strength argument is academic anyway, because any commercial action is several times stronger than required when loads are held to max pressure limits.  In a way, a good case can be made that the Rem 700 and actions like it with fully enclosed bolt face are stronger than any other action, because in the event of catastrophic case head separation, there's no extractor cutout to provide a pathway for escaping gases to suddenly escape, and therefore blow the receiver apart.

 

This isn't meant to imply the MK V isn't a good action for a hunting rifle, because it is, and it has several virtues.  But, once you start using terms like "the best," you're covering a lot of ground occupied by some very fine actions, and you have to define:  "best for what?"

That is funny that you mention that.  Last night, I got out two Mark Vs, a new and old and did that with a blue magic marker.  All 9 lug marked off evenly with 2 cycles.  When looking at the design of the receiver and bolt, there are three gas ports for escaping gases in the case of a catasrophic head seperation and as far as strength, in addition to the 9 lugs, which were not only created for strength, but for a 54 degree bolt turn (shortest in the industry), there are 3 rings of steel and I should add substantial amount of steel protecting seperation of the receiver.  Look at a Wby. Mark V action and the massive amount of steel and size of the receiver where the cartridge sits as compared to any other action.  To handle the pressures of a 460 Wby. magnum, which approachs those of a 700 nitro express, it has to be strong.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2007 at 09:40
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

That is funny that you mention that.  Last night, I got out two Mark Vs, a new and old and did that with a blue magic marker.  All 9 lug marked off evenly with 2 cycles.  When looking at the design of the receiver and bolt, there are three gas ports for escaping gases in the case of a catasrophic head seperation and as far as strength, in addition to the 9 lugs, which were not only created for strength, but for a 54 degree bolt turn (shortest in the industry), there are 3 rings of steel and I should add substantial amount of steel protecting seperation of the receiver.  Look at a Wby. Mark V action and the massive amount of steel and size of the receiver where the cartridge sits as compared to any other action.  To handle the pressures of a 460 Wby. magnum, which approachs those of a 700 nitro express, it has to be strong.

 

First, a 3 lug action has the same 120 deg spacing as the 9 lug action, which permits approx the same bolt lift of around 60 degrees, depending on the width of the lug and orientation of the bolt when closed.  If all 9 lugs are actually making full contact with the receiver abutments on your MK Vs, you have exceedingly rare examples.  Make sure you're talking about the actual bearing faces of the lugs (looking straight at you if you had the bolt handle toward your face, the bolt face away from you, and you're looking down the bolt body), not the lug o.d. or any other surface of the lugs.  9 small lugs is no stronger than 3 large lugs.

 

The Mk V has a M16 style extractor which means that the bolt face has been cut to accomodate the extractor.  In the event of catastrophic case head separation, it would not fare as well as a Rem 700 because the high pressure gases would follow the extractor cut out the side of the bolt and create assymetrical forces exerted on the receiver, which can blow it apart in certain circumstances.  I've seen a couple such examples of exactly this happening.  It isn't a true "3 ring" design like the Rem 700 because the inner "ring" (the bolt face) has the extractor cut.  In a true enclosed bolt face design, there is no path for the gases to go except out the barrel, because the extractor is contained entirely inside the bolt face, not cut through the side.  Anytime you cut through the bolt face to accommodate an extractor, you weaken it.

 

The wall thickness of a Wby reciever is no thicker than any other action designed for magnum cartridges.  The reason the MK V action is so massive is because of the large bolt diameter due to the fact the bolt diameter is the same as the lug diameter.  Although the .460 Wby has a lot of kinetic energy and recoil, it actually doesn't create as much peak chamber pressure as some of the ultra mags.  There are many actions chambered for the .460 and rounds of similar performance, including several Mauser style CRF 2-lug actions.

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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

P, try blueing the lugs on your two and three lug guns, especially newer ones like that .280. You'll probably find that they aren't seating completely.

 

Correct.  This is the case with many factory actions, and one reason they don't stack up to custom actions, precision- or strength-wise.  But, it's much easier to true up a 2 or 3 lug action so they make full contact than a 9-lug action.

 

I'm not a diehard fan of the Rem 700 action, by the way, just like every other action design, it has certain strengths and weaknesses.  Some of its strengths are its simplicity, it's inherent strength in handling overpressure, and its suitability and ease of converting to a target rig.



Edited by RifleDude
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well, i would put the Sako M995 action up there with anything.

 

it's the same action used in sako TRG-22's and such.  butter smooth and accurate as hell.

trigger is damn near perfect from the factory.

 

i would trust my life w/ that action, anyday.

 

but, again, it's an opinion. maybe shared by others, maybe not.

 

J

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The Sako is a $@#! good action, no doubt, as is most commercial actions in one way or another.  For hunting, any factory action will work well for several lifetimes worth of service and it all comes down to personal preference in what features you like.  Some are inherently safer or stronger than others, but really, that only comes into play whenever the shooter does something stupid/unsafe.  Some operate smoother than others, and some are easier to customize.  The bottom line is as long as we're talking about hunting rifles, the advantages of one vs. another are largely theoretical and in most cases, have little to no real world impact. 

 

But, when you get into specialty rifles like competition rigs, no factory action compares to a custom.

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Hi Ted and JB, I put that winky on the M700 out there for D. We all have our favorites and that is what makes the world go round.

D is THE Weatherby guy around here, after all. I'm not a big fan of the fat bolt myself but I have hunted with a Mark V .300 Wby before and I do have a fondness for it as a hunting rifle. For that reason I will get one one of these days.

As for the Stolle and other actions I see at the club, to each their own. I hunt and shoot service rifle. Those actions have excellent machining and are finely fitted. I just have no use for them in the cedars or the open woods.

I have done sighting in for hunters at our club and I have shot many different rifles. As for accuracy, at any given time, a Savage will shoot with a Wby will shoot with a Remy, Win, Sako and .........take your pick. Everyone knows about opinions and sphincters.

 



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I have 3 Mark V's (  two 300 Wby's and a 340 Wby ). I absolutely love the confidence,accuracy, and the short bolt throw they offer. Point and shoot, and without fail they exceed their 1.5 MOA guarantee. They weren't cheap , although certainly less than for example a Jarrett ,Sisk , or Hill Country , etc. However, I also have 3 Wallyworld Weatherby Vanguards . Calibers include a 30-06,  338 Win mag, and a 308 youth variant. Again, each easily exceeds Weatherby's accuracy guarantee, but lacks the quick bolt throw and smoothness of the Mk V. The shorter barrel has its advantages at times, and despite a somewhat lesser comparative  finish quality, for the money,  I would rate them a better "value" than the the Mk V action ( still lovem' though ). In the real world its the first shot that almost always is the killing shot, and your game will never know if you spent $400 or $4000.

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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Hi Ted and JB, I put that winky on the M700 out there for D. We all have our favorites and that is what makes the world go round.

D is THE Weatherby guy around here, after all. I'm not a big fan of the fat bolt myself but I have hunted with a Mark V .300 Wby before and I do have a fondness for it as a hunting rifle. For that reason I will get one one of these days.

As for the Stolle and other actions I see at the club, to each their own. I hunt and shoot service rifle. Those actions have excellent machining and are finely fitted. I just have no use for them in the cedars or the open woods.

I have done sighting in for hunters at our club and I have shot many different rifles. As for accuracy, at any given time, a Savage will shoot with a Wby will shoot with a Remy, Win, Sako and .........take your pick. Everyone knows about opions and sphincters.

 

Good points.

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Joined: December/22/2006
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i am only picky about calibers offered to tell you the truth, when it comes to who's making it yeah im not buying a weatherby mark v or a sako or a kimber cause i cannot afford it, but if its between browning remington ruger savge i really feel confident that whom evers gun i purchase, it wont be a piece of crap that falls apart after two seasons.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2007 at 14:21
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Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: October/05/2006
Location: North Carolina
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Points: 1795
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

That is funny that you mention that.  Last night, I got out two Mark Vs, a new and old and did that with a blue magic marker.  All 9 lug marked off evenly with 2 cycles.  When looking at the design of the receiver and bolt, there are three gas ports for escaping gases in the case of a catasrophic head seperation and as far as strength, in addition to the 9 lugs, which were not only created for strength, but for a 54 degree bolt turn (shortest in the industry), there are 3 rings of steel and I should add substantial amount of steel protecting seperation of the receiver.  Look at a Wby. Mark V action and the massive amount of steel and size of the receiver where the cartridge sits as compared to any other action.  To handle the pressures of a 460 Wby. magnum, which approachs those of a 700 nitro express, it has to be strong.

 

First, a 3 lug action has the same 120 deg spacing as the 9 lug action, which permits approx the same bolt lift of around 60 degrees, depending on the width of the lug and orientation of the bolt when closed.  If all 9 lugs are actually making full contact with the receiver abutments on your MK Vs, you have exceedingly rare examples.  Make sure you're talking about the actual bearing faces of the lugs (looking straight at you if you had the bolt handle toward your face, the bolt face away from you, and you're looking down the bolt body), not the lug o.d. or any other surface of the lugs.  9 small lugs is no stronger than 3 large lugs.

 

The Mk V has a M16 style extractor which means that the bolt face has been cut to accomodate the extractor.  In the event of catastrophic case head separation, it would not fare as well as a Rem 700 because the high pressure gases would follow the extractor cut out the side of the bolt and create assymetrical forces exerted on the receiver, which can blow it apart in certain circumstances.  I've seen a couple such examples of exactly this happening.  It isn't a true "3 ring" design like the Rem 700 because the inner "ring" (the bolt face) has the extractor cut.  In a true enclosed bolt face design, there is no path for the gases to go except out the barrel, because the extractor is contained entirely inside the bolt face, not cut through the side.  Anytime you cut through the bolt face to accommodate an extractor, you weaken it.

 

The wall thickness of a Wby reciever is no thicker than any other action designed for magnum cartridges.  The reason the MK V action is so massive is because of the large bolt diameter due to the fact the bolt diameter is the same as the lug diameter.  Although the .460 Wby has a lot of kinetic energy and recoil, it actually doesn't create as much peak chamber pressure as some of the ultra mags.  There are many actions chambered for the .460 and rounds of similar performance, including several Mauser style CRF 2-lug actions.

Actually, the extractor slot is not cut, it was forged and therefore and integral part of the design of the bolt, which does not impart any weakness.  The actual design of the Mark V action, of which the bolt is part of, is designed to withstand 200,000 cup.  There is no other bolt action designed to accomadate that much pressure.  That has actually been reproduced by independent labs.  Also, reloading data, with respect to pressures, are far lower than for Wby. loaded ammunition.  It is not unusual that Norma loaded Wby. ammo to approach 85,000 to 100,000 cpu.  That is why my Sierra loading manual never lists pressures for Wby. cartridges.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2007 at 15:32
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Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: October/05/2006
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1795

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i am only picky about calibers offered to tell you the truth, when it comes to who's making it yeah im not buying a weatherby mark v or a sako or a kimber cause i cannot afford it, but if its between browning remington ruger savge i really feel confident that whom evers gun i purchase, it wont be a piece of crap that falls apart after two seasons.

pyro6999, you know me, I have never purchased one Mark V brand new.  They may have never been shot, but were not brand new from the gunshop.  But like you, any of the others above I love, especially the Savage and I have bought quite a few of those lately, brand new.  Now talking about an action, despite the lack of close tolerances, when one of their Varminters can shoot sub-one half minute groups out of the box with premium ammo or hand loads and can extend that accuracy to 500 plus yards, essentially duplicating what people are spending mega bucks on bench rest rifles with custom actions, one must ask, what is the need for those close tolerances.  Someone is going to answer, longevity.  But, I will bet that the average bench rest shooter is much like any hobbyist and changes things constantly to try to find perfection.  Savage, when it comes to accuracy, is close to it.

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