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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2018 at 19:12
I, long ago, carried a 6" 629 in a shoulder holster.  I never felt uncomfortable carrying it, but always knew it was "limited" and always had to wear a jacket.  My semiauto backup carry, for a long time, was a Llama .380... at least with it, I had 3 mags that weighed almost nothing, were small and easy to carry... wherever, whenever.  Good BUG.  I still have it, have had it since I was 13, except for 4 years... but that is another story.
For a long time, I carried a Glock 17 with two extra mags (3 total).  Still have it, but it is a "leg gun", now.  My most recent carry was a Glock 33 with 4 mags.  I've varied it between .357 SIG and .40S&W... I like the SIG round better.  
I've never had a failure with any of them.  When I got my first Glock, I did have a FTE once due to "limp wristing".  I replaced the barrel in the Llama once.  I had a Glock that I tried to shoot to death once... it was still performing well when I sold it to a friend... I had just cleaned it for the first time in several years.  He has never complained about it, but I've not seen or heard from him in a few years.  

I can't carry enough speed loaders to justify carrying a revolver... but that's just me.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2018 at 23:02
I do agree with you Ted. Personally i would pick an auto for myself every time. But for some and somes situations they are worth consideration.

I do like my Ruger redhawk in .45 colt. But its a bit big for pocket carry.

I used to own a Kahr E9 way back. Great size, fit my hand well and was just big enough i could manipulate it well. I was shooting it one day and the back cover blew off and out came springs, firing pin, and other small parts. Amazing found them all put it back together and it ran fine going forward. But never trusted it again for daily carry. Always wanted to get another Kahr. Maybe one of these days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2018 at 07:24
After fifty years of concealed carry, there are certain things I know for sure:

1.  I can't predict what will work best for somebody else.

2.  There is no substitute for actual hands-on shooting by the person who will be carrying it, when picking a CC gun.

3.  Plan ahead for what you will do in specific bad situations.  This gives you a priceless advantage.  It helped my wife prevail alone at night in a road rage incident that happened in less than one minute.

My personal bet is that an experienced shooter who has planned ahead and stays calm has a pretty good chance of coming out ahead with any decent firearm.



           
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2018 at 11:28
Sounds like sage wisdom to me, LH!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SEMO Shooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 10:23
Coat pocket carry with a revolver so you can shoot through your coat pocket has been mentioned multiple times in this thread.  That means no holster is used at all.  I know this has been done for years, but I would not do it.  To me that is not much different that sticking a gun in your pants waistband, or pants pocket without a holster to secure it, and nothing for a trigger guard.

My .02, my opinion.  I'm sure others will disagree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 10:29
That scares me to Semo, what if you make a mistake and stick your keys in that pocket and then go to yank your keys out and either the gun comes out with the keys or the gun goes boom.  For me, my gun always goes in a holster on my hip, always.  That way I know where it is at and that nothing is in the way of it. 

Plus if you are wearing a coat, it is super easy to conceal.  With a little training and practice moving your coat out of the way for a good draw stoke is pretty slick.  I practice for 10 minutes twice a week during the winter with my different coats and jackets on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 12:13

I have to disagree here.... the trigger pull on a revolver you would be carrying in your pocket should not never be adjusted so that it would ever go off with out intentional acting on it.  IMO its way different than an auto with no holster.... the DA pull on must would never be something I could fatham being pulled inadvertently... then again.... nothing goes in that pocket besides the gun as well. keys aren't an issue, at least not for me.

 

ST if you're yankin' keys out hard enough to pull the trigger pull on the average J-Frame... your yankin' to hard lol....Embarrassed

 

For me and I know you understand too given our similar careers ST... I can't carry at work.  I typically won't have a coat to toss over my shirt and tie on lunch or other outings so I often toss my 432 in my pocket, sometimes with and sometimes without a holster.... I could not imagine a time you'd ever accidently pull the trigger on one in  your pocket... not saying it couldn't happen but likelihood is so low I don't consider a holster for a pocket revolver a must.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 12:19

 Kahr arrived yesterday, no trigger time on range but did dry fire some.  Trigger pull is different but I like it.... it will be an adjustment for follow up shots but practice will be done prior to any real use.  size wise, I would say it is between the G36 and G19 glocks.  Comparing it side by side to the G36 I picked up, not sure I would say the Kahr offers more conceal-ability but got to get more trigger time with both before deciding if one outperforms the other.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 13:05
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

I have to disagree here.... the trigger pull on a revolver you would be carrying in your pocket should not never be adjusted so that it would ever go off with out intentional acting on it.  IMO its way different than an auto with no holster.... the DA pull on must would never be something I could fatham being pulled inadvertently... then again.... nothing goes in that pocket besides the gun as well. keys aren't an issue, at least not for me.

 

ST if you're yankin' keys out hard enough to pull the trigger pull on the average J-Frame... your yankin' to hard lol....Embarrassed

 

For me and I know you understand too given our similar careers ST... I can't carry at work.  I typically won't have a coat to toss over my shirt and tie on lunch or other outings so I often toss my 432 in my pocket, sometimes with and sometimes without a holster.... I could not imagine a time you'd ever accidently pull the trigger on one in  your pocket... not saying it couldn't happen but likelihood is so low I don't consider a holster for a pocket revolver a must.



Picture this scenario.  This is a real one that happened to someone and was talked about at a ccw class i listened in on once.   Had smaller revo in right coat pocket.  Was certain her would never put anything in his coat pocket.  Was out shopping one day got to his car pulled his keys out of his pant pocket and unlocked his car, right then someone walked up and started talking to him.  While he was talking he inadvertently stuck his keys in his right coat pocket with his revo.  Well he got done chatting, got in his car, put on his seat belt which he figured wedged in his revo.  Started looking for his keys and found them in his jacket pocket.  Said he started pulling them out, key chain must have got caught on the trigger somehow and the seat belt must have held the gun in place and boom he shot a .38 hole right into his dash.  So, never say never. 

You can carry how you want, but I will never carry a gun in a pocket without a holster.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 13:23
On that same theme G mentioned, there are plenty of DAO semi-autos that have a very similar long DA revo-like trigger pulls, the Kahr lineup, DAO Sigs of various flavors and pretty much all DA/SA semi-autos galore being among them. So, a revolver doesn't necessarily provide a trigger safety advantage over a semi-auto pistol depending on fire control systems being compared.

Is the "coat pocket stealth engagement" strategy really a frequently used scenario or an urban legend? Not trying to be facetious. I've heard that scenario mentioned a few times over the years, but can't say I've ever actually heard of an example where that was done or really why one would choose to do that vs. clearing your sidearm of clothing for better control of bullet placement. I guess if someone was on top of you and had you pinned, limiting arm movement, perhaps?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 13:29
That's a good point Ted.  All my training has been about aimed fire.  If you are that close they have taught me to attempt to create distance by striking the person with hands, feet, knees, elbows or whatever, then presenting the weapon and firing from either close contact to your body or if you created enough distance from a proper shooting stance. 

Not saying that someone has never done the shoot through the coat idea.  But I would prefer to know exactly where my bullets are going since a lawyer is attached to each one of them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 13:37
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

But I would prefer to know exactly where my bullets are going since a lawyer is attached to each one of them.  

Man, truer words couldn't possibly exist than that! Hell, you may very likely need a lawyer in some situations even if you just PRESENT the pistol but don't fire a shot!
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SEMO Shooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 14:24
This actually happened to me several years ago.  You were always told if you pocket carry to make sure there is nothing else in your pocket.  There are very good reasons for that rule.

I used to carry a Kahr PM9, and sometimes still do.  Years ago I often pocket carried it in a soft side pocket holster.  One day I go to the hardware store on my way home from work.  When I get there I empty the change from my pocket, and still seated in the driver seat, start sticking the holstered Kahr in my right front pocket.  I still had my pocket knife with a cilp attached to my pocket.  As I stuff the Kahr into my pocket the knife pushes against the side of the soft side holster, and finds its way into the trigger guard.

When a 9mm handgun goes boom in your car it is very loud!!!!  When it goes boom in your pocket it makes a bigger hole in your pants than you think it would.  I hop out of the car, unbuckle my belt and drop my pants to see how bad I'm shot.  Unbelievably I am not shot, but I do have a pretty good powder burn on my leg, and a scratch about 8" long that is slightly bleeding.  Somehow I managed to miss my foot.  The car did suffer a graze to the lower dashboard, and a hole in the floor near the brake pedal.  More importantly, there are no other people around that could have been hit by a ricochet or splatter. 

 Sometimes an Angel watches over you.  That must have been the case for me that day.  Generally you have to break more than one firearm safety rule for something bad to happen.  With the right set of circumstances you only have to break one.

I did not name the brand of soft side holster because it could have happened with any brand I have ever fondled.  If I pocket carry now it is with a leather pocket holster with a stiff enough side that nothing could push against the trigger.

I was dumb and broke a rule.  I was lucky enough that only the soft side holster, and a pair of pants were ruined.  The big brown spot in my undies washed out, and a little caulking fixed the hole in the floor.

I will not carry any handgun that is not holstered in a good leather holster.  As I said earlier my .02, my opinion.


I edited this post to add that kydex or some type of solid, stiff sided material is needed.  MY preference is leather.


Edited by SEMO Shooter - December/11/2018 at 16:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 14:41
Well Semo, you convinced me.  I have never actually carried in a pocket before.  But now I never will, not even with a holster will I.  I use my pockets for to much other crap and the risk is to great IMO.  I like my leg. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 15:42
A proper pocket holster should always completely cover the trigger guard and be stiff so that it simply isn't possible for items to intrude into the trigger guard. Any holster, regardless of type, is part of your carry gun's safety system, and any holster that allows anything to contact the trigger while the gun is holstered is an unsafe design. Soft pocket holsters are unsafe and should not be used. A proper pocket holster should also keep the gun oriented muzzle down, have good pistol retention, and be sized so that it isn't possible for it to shift from that orientation no matter what. Basically, the requirements for a correctly designed pocket holster are exactly the same requirements as any other carry holster. There are plenty of pocket holsters that suck, but there are also plenty of stiff leather, properly made pocket holsters that completely cover everything but the grip. I pocket carry frequently, even when I'm also carrying a full size pistol in a waistband holster. 

Under no circumstances should you ever pocket carry an unholstered pistol, for the reasons mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 16:18
 I disagree Ted.... there are times I feel it is acceptable... again it takes common sense not to put anything else in your pocket with it but I pocket carry all the time with out a holster and my j frame or with a soft side holster.  But again I don't mean to say others weren't cautious but i'm always , ALWAYS certain that pocket contains nothing else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 16:24

If you feel you shouldn't that I'm out to change your mind but I feel its to each his own with their style if they are comfortable.  You are 100% liable for the firearm you carry and the bullets that exit the muzzle.... that should be your first thought each time you carry no matter how, what or wear you carry.

 

Now SEMO... not to knock you and don't take it at such but I can conclude if you pocket carried that way and also had a knife in that pocket you had become to complacent on carrying that style.  Pocket carry with no holster of a soft side holster is a method that does require thought more so that if it was in a holster that had a hard trigger guard cover of sorts be it in the pocket or waistband or any other way.  Don't get me wrong, not saying you're bad for doing it just saying its  easy to get complacent with carrying a firearm to the point some folks don't treat it as what it really is, a deadly weapon.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 16:44
I agree we each do what we are comfortable with is the key. 

I think the point Semo was trying to make as was the point I was trying to make is its easy now to say you are certain, but you make that one that mistake because something else distracted you and bang goes the gun.  Pockets are something we use for many other things every day.   Unless you never ever carry anything else in that pocket besides a gun and I mean ever there is always that chance you could get distracted and leave your knife clipped or drop your keys in, etc. Simple memory takes over and 100 different things could happen to make a gun go boom.  My kids put their hands in my pockets all the time and that is another risk for me.

The guy telling the story I was listening to was talking the same as you.  He had all the good common sense and would never make a mistake and become complacent.  But he never thought of the scenario that happened to him.  He was just grateful he didn't hurt himself or anyone else. 

A proper holster reduces the risks considerably.  But for me, I've spent to many years building up muscle memory that my pockets are for everything else than to trust them for a gun.    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 18:43
The reasons for always using a properly designed pocket holster when pocket carrying a pistol goes beyond just safeguarding against NDs. It also prevents lint or other objects/debris in your pocket from entering the muzzle, collecting inside the slide, etc. It also provides a square outline in your pocket that looks “wallet-like,” to avoid “printing.” It prevents your pistol from sliding around and altering orientation within your pocket, further enhancing safety. Finally, it helps shield your gun from sweat.

The fact is, the event described with ND would be highly improbable if not impossible with a stiff (not soft), thick leather or Kydex pocket holster that completely covers the trigger guard and has good pistol retention.

Everyone has their own comfort zone with respect to carry method, but there is no doubt that pocket carry is much safer when using a properly designed, stiff holster that completely covers the trigger guard and prevents your gun from shifting around in your pocket, in the same way that it’s safer to always use a holster with any other carry method.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2018 at 18:56
By the way, please understand that none of the above is meant as a criticism of SVT or Semo in any way. I have no doubt that both are very safe, conscientious guys.

The point is, mistakes happen. To err is human. It’s always better to employ superior methods that help you mitigate mistakes, especially when there is no disadvantage to doing so.
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