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CAST YOUR VOTE: What's the best long-range scope?

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mark21901 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mark21901 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:28

Just a brief personal thought. 

There are scopes in your list that are built to survive extreme temperature, altitude, vibration, salt fog corrosion testing and immersion just to name a few.

Then there are other far suggestions similar to the SS HD scope mentioned. I do not mean to offend anyone who has an SS HD scope but for myself I prefer to purchase a  product from Leupold or S&B.

If one desired he could visit either of their factory's and of course over time witness the development of their product. Take Zeiss for example, they are not a scope company, nor are they an optics but they have the full spectrum of metrology, observatories and cellular microscopes. In my opinion, a real solid company. I do wish they would consider making less of their 400k CMM machines and worry more about a 1k scope but that will not happen anytime soon.

Which brings me to my conclusion, when companies like SWFA and Counter sniper Optics whom are incapable of 100% in house manufacturing ask astronomical amounts for an unproven product I tend to be a teensy bit skeptical. But most online communities are now being dominated by individuals whom tend to purchase anything with the word tactical in the company name.

Perhaps you could consider separating the groups into what the manufacturer considered the target market thus isolating S&B, LP MK8 and the beast from the rest.

As an engineer you could look into National Instruments Image analysis software to analyze picture quality. For light transmission you could start with some photometric sensors (10-18k). This would be the low budget testing.. a N.I.S.T. quality setup will easily set you back 300k.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mark21901 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:43

One more thing. If you purchase a recoil gymnasticator for this test I will come help you set it up.

Good luck with your test.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:46
Peeker


 








Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - March/20/2014 at 21:39
No one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:51
It appears he is one of those 'made up his mind before ever trying it' kind of guys...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 21:26
Mark, if lueppy is going to be the standard bearer, it had better be aa Mark 6 our better! Especially since the SS compares really well to Vortex Razor and night force f-1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 21:48

So...  where was the "thought"???


Originally posted by mark21901 mark21901 wrote:

Just a brief personal thought. 

There are scopes in your list that are built to survive extreme temperature, altitude, vibration, salt fog corrosion testing and immersion just to name a few.

Then there are other far suggestions similar to the SS HD scope mentioned. I do not mean to offend anyone who has an SS HD scope but for myself I prefer to purchase a  product from Leupold or S&B.

If one desired he could visit either of their factory's and of course over time witness the development of their product. Take Zeiss for example, they are not a scope company, nor are they an optics but they have the full spectrum of metrology, observatories and cellular microscopes. In my opinion, a real solid company. I do wish they would consider making less of their 400k CMM machines and worry more about a 1k scope but that will not happen anytime soon.

Which brings me to my conclusion, when companies like SWFA and Counter sniper Optics whom are incapable of 100% in house manufacturing ask astronomical amounts for an unproven product I tend to be a teensy bit skeptical. But most online communities are now being dominated by individuals whom tend to purchase anything with the word tactical in the company name.

Perhaps you could consider separating the groups into what the manufacturer considered the target market thus isolating S&B, LP MK8 and the beast from the rest.

As an engineer you could look into National Instruments Image analysis software to analyze picture quality. For light transmission you could start with some photometric sensors (10-18k). This would be the low budget testing.. a N.I.S.T. quality setup will easily set you back 300k.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 05:20
 
 
Can't you spot it in the diatribe?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ouch!...... I think i just hurt myself!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 05:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 07:45
Originally posted by mark21901 mark21901 wrote:

Which brings me to my conclusion, when companies like SWFA and Counter sniper Optics whom are incapable of 100% in house manufacturing ask astronomical amounts for an unproven product I tend to be a teensy bit skeptical. But most online communities are now being dominated by individuals whom tend to purchase anything with the word tactical in the company name.


1) Mentioning SWFA and that other optical abomination in the same sentence is ludicrous. I'll let this one ride. But......

2) SWFA's pricing of the SS line is FAR more economical than any other optics product I can think of. As far as I'm concerned, your beloved Leupold has until recently the market cornered on overpricing of, at times, inferior products. 

SS scopes are "unproven"??? This statement is not worthy of my time, nor comment.     

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 08:05
Excellent Excellent Excellent Excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 08:38
first post guys, he's a troll.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 08:55
He needs to go on a pilgrimage to find a Leupold glass plant making glass and lenses inside the USA.
That should keep him busy for a long while.
Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 09:25
He just doesn't know what he doesn't know. 

The funny part is only the $3000+ Leupolds even compare optically to the SSHD.  I know, I have looked through them side by side. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 09:38
Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

He needs to go on a pilgrimage to find a Leupold glass plant making glass and lenses inside the USA.
That should keep him busy for a long while.


Nobody "makes" any of their lenses in house, except for S&B and Meopta. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 11:50
Originally posted by mark21901 mark21901 wrote:

Just a brief personal thought. 

There are scopes in your list that are built to survive extreme temperature, altitude, vibration, salt fog corrosion testing and immersion just to name a few.

Then there are other far suggestions similar to the SS HD scope mentioned. I do not mean to offend anyone who has an SS HD scope but for myself I prefer to purchase a  product from Leupold or S&B.

If one desired he could visit either of their factory's and of course over time witness the development of their product. Take Zeiss for example, they are not a scope company, nor are they an optics but they have the full spectrum of metrology, observatories and cellular microscopes. In my opinion, a real solid company. I do wish they would consider making less of their 400k CMM machines and worry more about a 1k scope but that will not happen anytime soon.

Which brings me to my conclusion, when companies like SWFA and Counter sniper Optics whom are incapable of 100% in house manufacturing ask astronomical amounts for an unproven product I tend to be a teensy bit skeptical. But most online communities are now being dominated by individuals whom tend to purchase anything with the word tactical in the company name.

Perhaps you could consider separating the groups into what the manufacturer considered the target market thus isolating S&B, LP MK8 and the beast from the rest.

As an engineer you could look into National Instruments Image analysis software to analyze picture quality. For light transmission you could start with some photometric sensors (10-18k). This would be the low budget testing.. a N.I.S.T. quality setup will easily set you back 300k.




It is so very painfully obvious that this individual has absolutely no clue as to what he is talking about.

I think Peddler's line of

When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.

Is very fitting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 12:30
This thread is already derailing. 
If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 13:07
Originally posted by mark21901 mark21901 wrote:

Just a brief personal thought. 

There are scopes in your list that are built to survive extreme temperature, altitude, vibration, salt fog corrosion testing and immersion just to name a few.

Then there are other far suggestions similar to the SS HD scope mentioned. I do not mean to offend anyone who has an SS HD scope but for myself I prefer to purchase a  product from Leupold or S&B.

If one desired he could visit either of their factory's and of course over time witness the development of their product. Take Zeiss for example, they are not a scope company, nor are they an optics but they have the full spectrum of metrology, observatories and cellular microscopes. In my opinion, a real solid company. I do wish they would consider making less of their 400k CMM machines and worry more about a 1k scope but that will not happen anytime soon.

Which brings me to my conclusion, when companies like SWFA and Counter sniper Optics whom are incapable of 100% in house manufacturing ask astronomical amounts for an unproven product I tend to be a teensy bit skeptical. But most online communities are now being dominated by individuals whom tend to purchase anything with the word tactical in the company name.

Perhaps you could consider separating the groups into what the manufacturer considered the target market thus isolating S&B, LP MK8 and the beast from the rest.

As an engineer you could look into National Instruments Image analysis software to analyze picture quality. For light transmission you could start with some photometric sensors (10-18k). This would be the low budget testing.. a N.I.S.T. quality setup will easily set you back 300k.



I will ignore the insanity of comparing SWFA to Counter Sniper.  That shows rather remarkable ignorance, but I think that has been addressed already.

I do have a question: what would you consider to be a NIST quality setup that you think would set you back $300k?

I will also comment on the whole "do everything in house" theory since that comes up every once in a while.

Insisting that everyone who makes a product does everything in house is profoundly stupid.  What makes you think that the only way to control your manufacturing process is to own your own factory?  That is, at best, both ignorant and incompetent.

I work for a company that makes electro-optical test equipment.  We make custom and standardized test sets for testing cameras, lasers, weapon sights, etc.  Many of our customers who specialize in making various optical systems are perfectly capable of making the test equipment themselves.  However, they still buy it from us.  Why do you think that is?  Do you think they are incapable of making it themselves?  Of course, they are capable.  They have the expertise and the capacity to make everything we make for them, but they still buy it from us.   Why do you think that is the case?  

I'll help you with that one.  Because we can make these test systems to the same or better standards than that they can for 30% to 50% of the cost.  We specialize in doing these exact things and we are much more efficient in making test sets than just about anyone else out there.  That is ALL we do.  When we deliver a product it comes with detailed test reports and QC documentation.  If our product does not stack up, we do not get paid.  That is the best motivator in the world.

Why do you think virtually no company does everything in house?  It is expensive and not efficient.  It is also not necessarily good from a quality standpoint.  If your expertise is in mechanical design and system integration, you do not want to be grinding your own lenses even if you know how (and most don't).  Examples of this are too many to name.

In the riflescope world,  virtually no one does everything in house simply because it makes no sense to do so.  

The exceptions are either very high end brands (and even their I am not convinced they are telling the whole truth) or companies who are OEM manufacturers and make optical devices for others.  Meopta is one such example.  They are a contract manufacturer for other companies and they also happen to make their own house brand of optics under their own name.  Still, technically, they do not do everything in house since they buy the raw glass from glass manufacturers.

There are a couple of other companies that either own their own small factories or are house brands of large OEM manufacturers.  They usually do not go public with that information, so I will not out them either.

The vast majority of riflescope manufacturers out there use one of several dominant OEMs in this business and you should be happy that they do.  If they did not, you would be paying  alot more for your scopes.

ILya

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2014 at 15:55
Well said ILya!  That's as about as clear as can be humanly put.
 
Makes perfect sense to concentrate on your strengths and use closely supervised /QCed  parts from other specialist...  Best of all worlds  and still affordable...
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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