New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - CAST YOUR VOTE: What's the best long-range scope?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

CAST YOUR VOTE: What's the best long-range scope?

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2 3>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2014 at 13:53
PrecisionRifleBlog View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/04/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 14
First, I have a LOT of respect for the guys in this forum. You have definitely taught me a lot about optics, so I wanted to see if you'd mind weighing in on a little poll I created on long-range scopes.

In a few weeks, I’m starting a large field test for popular tactical scopes in the $1,500+ price range (plan to test $500-1,500 scopes later this year). Like my rangefinder field test, I'm attempting to have an objective, data-driven approach using a series of empirical tests that focus on:
  • Optical Quality (resolution/clarity, contrast, brightness, etc)
  • Mechanical Precision & Repeatability (tracking, return to zero, internal adjustments etc)
Here are the 17 scopes I'm planning to include in the $1500+ price range field test:
  • Bushnell Elite Tactical 3.5-21x50
  • Bushnell Elite Tactical 4.5-30x50
  • Hensoldt ZF 3.5-26x56
  • Kahles K 6-24x56
  • Leupold Mark 6 3-18x44
  • Leupold Mark 8 3.5-25x56
  • March 3-24x52 FFP
  • Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50
  • Nightforce 5-25x56 ATACR
  • Nightforce BEAST 5-25x56
  • Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25x56
  • Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-27x56
  • Steiner Military 5-25x56
  • US Optics ER25 5-25x58
  • Valdada IOR 3.5-18x50
  • Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50
  • Zeiss Victory FL Diavari 6–24x56
But before I start testing, I thought it’d be fun to see what the opinion of the shooting community was on these scopes. So I created a poll with just 2 questions:
  1. Overall Performance: Which scope will perform the best overall in the field tests, regardless of price?
  2. Value: Which scope will provide great performance in the field test (i.e. end up in the top 50%) for the lowest price?
If you'd like to cast your vote, please visit: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/03/13/best-tactical-scope/. Thanks for your help!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 14:28
dsr View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: May/31/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 242
Take a look at the Sightron line SIII they are showing up at long rifle matches. They are slightly below your requirement price of 1500 but provide a big bang for the buck.

Regards,
dsr

http://swfa.com/Sightron-10-50x60-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P65927.aspx

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 15:10
PrecisionRifleBlog View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/04/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Hey, thanks a lot for the tip. Someone had mentioned Sightron to me, but I haven't had any experience with them. So this confirms that I should include them in the 2nd round of this field test, which will focus on $500-1500 scopes. They're in.

If anyone else has suggestions for either class of scope, I'd appreciate it. I really think it is going to be difficult to narrow down the $500-1500 price range to just 20 scopes, so if you know of a great scope please let me know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 15:21
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20468
You have NO SS scopes on your list. 

Mr. Koshkin has already done extensive testing on his blog. Not sure where your going with this. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 15:22
stickbow46 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/07/2009
Location: Benton, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 4673
Trijicon Acogs
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 17:56
3_tens View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2007
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Online
Points: 7179
SS HD 5-20X50 is the best I have had my hands at  $1,500 If you don't include it, you are missing out on great value with quality.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 20:15
Obi Wan Kenobi View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/21/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 186
The Zeiss, S&B then the Kahles.
 
I'm surprised you don't have the Swarovski 5-25x52s on your list. That is also one damn fine long range scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 00:49
Sparky View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire


Joined: July/15/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 3190
Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

SS HD 5-20X50 is the best I have had my hands at  $1,500 If you don't include it, you are missing out on great value with quality.


+1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 02:13
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10961
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

You have NO SS scopes on your list. 

Mr. Koshkin has already done extensive testing on his blog. Not sure where your going with this. 

There is always room for more opinions, especially differing ones.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 08:00
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20468
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

You have NO SS scopes on your list. 

Mr. Koshkin has already done extensive testing on his blog. Not sure where your going with this. 

There is always room for more opinions, especially differing ones.

ILya

If you say so....Expert analysis, like yours, trumps some internet dude's musings on the same subject. 

I could start a blog on quantum physics...Thinking 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 08:13
Peddler View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: July/04/2012
Location: Oswego,NY
Status: Offline
Points: 9032
Is that anything like four enema's?

Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 08:51
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14311
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I could start a blog on quantum physics...Thinking 



...and knowing what I know about your prowess in the field of quantum physics, I believe you should, my friend!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 16:38
Skylar McMahon View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar

Joined: April/05/2011
Location: TEXAS
Status: Offline
Points: 5507
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I could start a blog on quantum physics...Thinking 



...and knowing what I know about your prowess in the field of quantum physics, I believe you should, my friend!
 
If he does, he should start with a book called " Alice in Quantumland"
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 16:52
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14311
Face it Sky; Mark OWES it to all of mankind. To keep so much brilliance locked up inside that Beautiful Mind of his without it being put to good use for the advancement of humanity would be a crying shame!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 17:39
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 27625
 
 
He brought you something back from Colorado didn't he?  Trippin


Edited by budperm - March/18/2014 at 17:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 17:45
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10961
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

You have NO SS scopes on your list. 

Mr. Koshkin has already done extensive testing on his blog. Not sure where your going with this. 

There is always room for more opinions, especially differing ones.

ILya

If you say so....Expert analysis, like yours, trumps some internet dude's musings on the same subject. 

I could start a blog on quantum physics...Thinking 


Quantum physics is not rocket science.  It's just a little math.

All that aside, I looked at the guy's blog.  He seems to be an IT guy, and he likes playing with data.  I think he's got all his accomplishments listed there:

He is probably a competent shot, so it will be interesting to see how far he takes this.  It will definitely be itnersting to see what he finds in his mechanical tests.

He does not seem to know much about optics, but it is not rocket science either.  If he is so inclined, I am sure he can figure it out.

He does claim that he will do an objective comparison, so I am very curious to see how he is going to do an objective optics comparison.  It is not very difficult, but not as straightforward as people think.  He specifically calls out a few things including clarity.  I would like to see how he will set up an objective clarity test.


ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 18:43
verminator View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: March/02/2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 174
did a back to back with these 2..Kahles Competition K1050 10-50x56 and a PM2..12-50x56 the PM2 was the winner  the kahles was a close secondBig Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 17:42
PrecisionRifleBlog View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/04/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Thanks for all the tips. I did actually try to include the Swaro 5-30, but couldn't get anyone there to respond (even though I talked to them about this at SHOT in person and they seemed interested ... frustrating). They were a borderline case, because they really don't have a tactical reticle with even marks on the horizontal and vertical axis ... so I'm not too disappointed.

For the optical resolution tests, I plan to tackle that in a few different ways. One of which is FinnAccuracy's resolution test, which seems very well thought out. But you guys are right, I'm a novice at best when it comes to optics ... so if you guys have any other suggestions I'm all ears.So that helps too. That is actually why I posted this here. I know the optics experts live here, so I'm looking for input.

My competency here is really that I'm an OCD engineer, which helps me be logical and objective ... and I've also had a lot of formal training and professional experience in analyzing data and representing it visually.

I plan to be 100% transparent and publish all the details about how I performed the tests and gathered the data. In fact, I could share the rough draft of that if anyone was interested in looking it over.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 19:18
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13868
Swarovski has no interest in their scopes being used tactically they wish to remain geared toward hunting and recreational target shooting. 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 14:37
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10961
Originally posted by PrecisionRifleBlog PrecisionRifleBlog wrote:

Thanks for all the tips. I did actually try to include the Swaro 5-30, but couldn't get anyone there to respond (even though I talked to them about this at SHOT in person and they seemed interested ... frustrating). They were a borderline case, because they really don't have a tactical reticle with even marks on the horizontal and vertical axis ... so I'm not too disappointed.

For the optical resolution tests, I plan to tackle that in a few different ways. One of which is FinnAccuracy's resolution test, which seems very well thought out. But you guys are right, I'm a novice at best when it comes to optics ... so if you guys have any other suggestions I'm all ears.So that helps too. That is actually why I posted this here. I know the optics experts live here, so I'm looking for input.

My competency here is really that I'm an OCD engineer, which helps me be logical and objective ... and I've also had a lot of formal training and professional experience in analyzing data and representing it visually.

I plan to be 100% transparent and publish all the details about how I performed the tests and gathered the data. In fact, I could share the rough draft of that if anyone was interested in looking it over.

The FinnAccuracy charts are definitely a good start, but you have to be a little careful with what magnifications you test and how you calibrate the relative magnifications of different scopes.

Following FA's instructions is a bit misleading because they do not understand how a focal telescopes work and how imaging works.  For example, the results of your resolution measurements are not really comparable between different days or even between morning and afternoon of the same day.

Most importantly, you should more or less give up claiming to have an objective test of the optical quality of the riflescopes.  Unless, you plan to invest a lot of money into specialized equipment, there really is not way to do an objective test.  However, if you set  things up correctly, you can do a pretty good differential evaluation.  You just have to keep track of ambient conditions between different days of the test and in which sequence you tested the scopes.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:28
mark21901 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/20/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3

Just a brief personal thought. 

There are scopes in your list that are built to survive extreme temperature, altitude, vibration, salt fog corrosion testing and immersion just to name a few.

Then there are other far suggestions similar to the SS HD scope mentioned. I do not mean to offend anyone who has an SS HD scope but for myself I prefer to purchase a  product from Leupold or S&B.

If one desired he could visit either of their factory's and of course over time witness the development of their product. Take Zeiss for example, they are not a scope company, nor are they an optics but they have the full spectrum of metrology, observatories and cellular microscopes. In my opinion, a real solid company. I do wish they would consider making less of their 400k CMM machines and worry more about a 1k scope but that will not happen anytime soon.

Which brings me to my conclusion, when companies like SWFA and Counter sniper Optics whom are incapable of 100% in house manufacturing ask astronomical amounts for an unproven product I tend to be a teensy bit skeptical. But most online communities are now being dominated by individuals whom tend to purchase anything with the word tactical in the company name.

Perhaps you could consider separating the groups into what the manufacturer considered the target market thus isolating S&B, LP MK8 and the beast from the rest.

As an engineer you could look into National Instruments Image analysis software to analyze picture quality. For light transmission you could start with some photometric sensors (10-18k). This would be the low budget testing.. a N.I.S.T. quality setup will easily set you back 300k.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:31
Peddler View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: July/04/2012
Location: Oswego,NY
Status: Offline
Points: 9032
Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:34
3_tens View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2007
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Online
Points: 7179
Smiling Mad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:43
mark21901 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/20/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3

One more thing. If you purchase a recoil gymnasticator for this test I will come help you set it up.

Good luck with your test.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 19:46
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Offline
Points: 2455
Peeker


 








Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - March/20/2014 at 21:39
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2 3>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "CAST YOUR VOTE: What's the best long-range scope?"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Which long range scope? john Rifle Scopes 6 9/23/2004 8:41:38 AM
Long Range Hunting Scope Canyon Runner Rifle Scopes 33 1/28/2005 10:58:24 AM
Long range scope LongRange Tactical Scopes 9 6/27/2005 11:42:08 AM
Long range varminting scopes suggestions Jeffro3006mag Varmint Scopes 5 1/18/2006 3:28:21 PM
Scout scope for long range? Flick Rifle Scopes 10 5/17/2006 11:42:57 AM
Ultimate Long Range Varmint Scope Lord Windsor Varmint Scopes 10 4/20/2007 11:06:06 AM
scope under $500 for long range shots talpur Rifle Scopes 12 6/23/2007 3:51:32 PM
Long Range Scope for .223 Plumplopps Rifle Scopes 4 8/30/2007 5:32:03 PM
Long Range Scope for 300 WIn Mag helo18 Rifle Scopes 46 10/14/2007 12:39:49 PM
Affordable long range scope options Mouse Rifle Scopes 5


This page was generated in 0.656 seconds.