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case head squaring

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2008 at 11:44
Jeff H. View Drop Down
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does anyone know if full-length resizing will square the case heads?

thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2008 at 11:56
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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no, but fire forming will.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2008 at 12:14
Jeff H. View Drop Down
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ah ok. thank you for the resonse.

the reason i was wondering is that i was looking at the T/C encore. this is of course a single shot gun. i was reading an article by michael bellm, and he said that on these guns the barrels (and chambers) are usually not square with the breechface. as a result, the heads on fireformed cases are actually bent out of square.

he discusses a "workaround" for this issue in this article: http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=161

but the thing that he doesn't address is this: if your case heads are out of square, then when you trim the cases, the mouth of the case necks will also be out of square. and this will in turn produce an inconsistent seating depth around the circumference of the bullet.

is this somehting that one should be concerned about, or is it gong to be so minute as to be a non issue?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2008 at 09:04
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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usually trimming uses a pilot for the express purposes of keeping the "true" regardless of whats going on with the base.
t/c s have the additional problem in that the axis of the frame in the pin must be perpendicular to the bore center line, whereas a bolt rifle only has to at the breech face.
most of the t/c I've worked with were never reworked for this problem and would shoot or out shoot a bolt rifle all day long.
when a bolt is blue printed this is supposed to be one of the services your paying for.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2008 at 10:57
Jeff H. View Drop Down
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oh ok - that's good to hear. that makes me feel better! thanks dale!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2008 at 07:55
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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a lot of the problem with tc's are in the fireforming process,if you neck size only the case is alot of the times to tight to , and the tc doesn't have enough camming action to close. thus slight FL resizing works well. If at this point the base of the case is "off" it will be even more difficult to close.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2008 at 09:04
Jeff H. View Drop Down
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yeah that makes sense.

one of bellm's suggestions is to orient previously-fired cases in the chamber the same way every time (for example, always chambering the round so that the stamp on the case head is up). this way, the "out-of-squareness" of the case head will match the "out-of-squreness" of the barrel/breechface interface.

this seems like a good idea.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2008 at 19:12
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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dye chem works better -small mark on the case head, this method is/was used by metallic silhoutte shooters  for revolvers, which face a much more severe out of square head than tc shooters. the problem also depends on which case your using, large heads or cases fireformed from 30-30 like the 30 herrett are worse, with 221 fireball ok, problem comes up again with hornet and 22lr.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2008 at 22:03
Jeff H. View Drop Down
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could you elaborate on the "dye chem" method? :)

i'm looking at .222 in the encore.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2008 at 16:36
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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dye chem is kind of magic marker, when a tc closes the base should fit flush with the barrel, if not the base will scrap against the recoil shield of the frame, just as a break open shotgun,. and like an o/u you can color the recoil shield to see if the hinge pins are "moving the barrel assemblies" into the lock position (the case or shell will scrap off the dye chem). beretta, and skb "lever" the barrels back as they close, a tc doesn't, also the marker can be used to put a small mark on the case and the barrel to line up each time you load one. rounds like the 222 have very little thrust so "springing" doesnt occur. If the high point on the case exists and is a problem it will show, also by a slight rounding at the outside edge of the rim. a small knurl.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2008 at 18:11
Jeff H. View Drop Down
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ok i see. thank you for the explanation...
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