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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 18:43
treemanc View Drop Down
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 how hot do you have to get the case to anneal it. just forgot and left some cases on a cookie sheet on the wood stove and they were to hot to pick up. dom't want the case heads to be soft.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 18:48
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the way a old blacksmith/ gun nut told me to do it was to take a bucket of water and a benzomatic torch and hold the case buy the head and rotate the case neck through the flame and when you couldnt hold on to the case anymore drop it in the bucket, it works very well i havent had any problems with any of my annealed cases, sh*tty part is that you burn your fingers every time, i have heard of placing a bunch of cases ina pan with like 1/2-3/4 of an inch of water and heat from the bottom and then shake the pan to tip the cases over into the water.

Edited by pyro6999 - March/02/2008 at 19:43
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 19:32
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The ONLY part of the case you want to anneal is the neck/shoulder junction. If you make the rest of the case to soft, you may risk catastrophic failure. (possible case rupture)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 19:35
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 the probiem is i heated the whole case but didn't quench in cold water just let them cool down. was just trying to dry them not anneal them. just want to make sure i didn't soften case head
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 19:52
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I doubt that you got them any hotter than they get when they're fired. As long as they didn't change color I don't think youhave anything to worry about. I stand my cases to be annealed up in a shallow pan with enough water in it to reach a little ways below the shoulder. I heat each case with a propane torch until the neck/shoulder just barely starts to turn red & tip it over with the side of the torch tip. The water will keep the heat away from the case heads.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 19:55
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he heated the whole case though, that troubles me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 01:55
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Lead melts at exactly the correct temp to anneal cases. So use a small pot and melt enough lead to cover the bottom so that you can dip the case up to the point you want to aneal. Then spray a little oil (Q20 or something) on the case neck to prevent the lead sticking to the case. Then, using a pair of pliers and wearing welders gloves, dip each case in the lead, count to 8 and then toss the case in a bucket of water. be carefull, the oil ignites on the hot lead. So work in a safe area and ventilated area.
Works like a charm. I think the temp to aneal brass is 327 deg Centigrade, which is also the melting point for lead.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 01:57
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Oh and brass works opposite to steel. To soften brass you heat it and then cool it down. Steel hardens in this process. You only want to anneal (soften) the case mouth for holding and then releasing the bullet without cracking.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 13:59
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Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Oh and brass works opposite to steel. To soften brass you heat it and then cool it down. Steel hardens in this process. You only want to anneal (soften) the case mouth for holding and then releasing the bullet without cracking.
 
Not necessarily.  Steel can be annealed just like brass.  It all depends on the type of steel used, the temperature that it is heated, and how quickly it was quenched after heating, which is all critical in determining if the steel is annealed or hardened.  We anneal steel all the time in the shop where I work.


Edited by RifleDude - March/03/2008 at 14:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 18:13
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The question i have is if you don't quench it rather let it cool down does it become annealed. the cases were on a cookie sheet on an old wood stove in the garage that has a shroud that is 4" above the firebox. the cases wern't discolored just to hot to hold. only 50 rd's & only used twice with the price of brass now hate to throw them away unless there may be a problem

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 18:20
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Originally posted by treemanc treemanc wrote:

The question i have is if you don't quench it rather let it cool down does it become annealed. the cases were on a cookie sheet on an old wood stove in the garage that has a shroud that is 4" above the firebox. the cases wern't discolored just to hot to hold. only 50 rd's & only used twice with the price of brass now hate to throw them away unless there may be a problem

 
This is not official advice, but unless I were going to load some very hot loads, or run them through a rifle with borderline headspace, I personally would not hesitate  to use them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 23:06
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by treemanc treemanc wrote:

The question i have is if you don't quench it rather let it cool down does it become annealed. the cases were on a cookie sheet on an old wood stove in the garage that has a shroud that is 4" above the firebox. the cases wern't discolored just to hot to hold. only 50 rd's & only used twice with the price of brass now hate to throw them away unless there may be a problem

 
This is not official advice, but unless I were going to load some very hot loads, or run them through a rifle with borderline headspace, I personally would not hesitate  to use them.

Ron is very careful with his reloading advice. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 23:08
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If I didn't know better, I would have thought you worked in healthcare.  You can never be too careful. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2008 at 01:32
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As far as I know the cases have to be cooled quickly after heating. Another trick is to stand them in water, with only the part to be annealed sticking out. Then using a flame such as propane torch, heat the cases, when done simply knock them over into the water. The problem is to heat them to the correct temp and also evenly all round. That is why dipping them in lead does the best job.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2008 at 01:35
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Oh and brass works opposite to steel. To soften brass you heat it and then cool it down. Steel hardens in this process. You only want to anneal (soften) the case mouth for holding and then releasing the bullet without cracking.
 
Not necessarily.  Steel can be annealed just like brass.  It all depends on the type of steel used, the temperature that it is heated, and how quickly it was quenched after heating, which is all critical in determining if the steel is annealed or hardened.  We anneal steel all the time in the shop where I work.
 
Rifledude, shows one is never to old to learn! That is something I did not know. I do know that if you heat steel and let it cool slowly it softens.
This is why it kills knives to wash them in hot water. The very thin cutting edge heats up and whilst cooling the temper is negatively effected.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2008 at 19:42
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Originally posted by ckk1106 ckk1106 wrote:

If I didn't know better, I would have thought you worked in healthcare.  You can never be too careful. 
 
 No, I work in structural steel fabrication and in the last ten days saw 3 different guys come very close to crushing themselves to death.
 Reloading doesn't scare me as much as it perhaps should, mainly because I use good equipment, read the manuals carefully and always reload only when completely free of distractions.  I never run any handloads full-throttle, either.
 My comment about the brass was based on the fact that even if it was annealed slightly, which I doubt by his statement that it wasn't discolored at all, it is still brass, not wet tissue paper.  I'd bet a good percentage of factory brass is probably about as soft as brass can be made.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 22:32
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thanks for the info sounds like they'll be ok
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 15:47
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i have only purchased two lots of 50 cases in the 6.5rem mag that i didnt have to anneal, i wish i could get them from winchester, remingtons brass quality has been going down hill for reason.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2008 at 12:56
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Finally, I found some good intel on this subject. Sorry for the later reply...
 

DANGEROUS TO ANNEAL THE CASE HEAD.... I have done a Finite Element Analysis of the 243 Win brass case for the full hard condition and in the annealed condition, if someone were to inadvertently anneal the case head. Here is a view of the brass deformations after a standard load has been fired that developed 55,000 psi. The annealed case head would most likely rupture and vent gas into the action and destroy your rifle. The calculation didn't allow for actual rupture, but allowed for the brass to stretch. But, you can see the deformations just before the brass ruptures. Notice how much the primer pocket expands. The red dots show the original un-deformed outline. A normal case head in the full hard condition is shown for comparison.


Full Hard 243 Win case head.
View after a 55,000 pressure loading!
This is a normal loading and a safe case head.


Annealed 243 Win case head.
Very dangerous!
This is the deformed view.


This view shows the plastic strain. There is very little plastic
strain in the case head.


This view shows the plastic strain. Everything except the bolt face is showing plastic flow. There is a very large
amount of plastic flow in the primer/primer pocket and the seal would probably have been compromised.

Good Hunting... from Varmint Al

This info is based on Computer simulation of the brass cartridge in the chamber, which is then increased to 55,000 PSI and then dropped to zero PSI. Notice the masive deformation shown at the head...
 
Scary! If you have 'soft' brass, recycle it, don't reload it!
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