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Cant make a choice!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2006 at 04:24
fusionstar916 View Drop Down
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I need 2 Target/Varmint (100-300 yrds Varmint / 500-600 yrds Target) scopes that will tickle my fancy at under $600 USD total (+/- 50 bucks). But im torn between these.

Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40 Matte Finish w/Rainguard - Adjustable Objective - MultiX Reticle $269.92 
Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40 Matte Riflescope Nikoplex $240.80
Weaver V24 6-24x42 Matte w/Mil Dot $310.24
Weaver V16 4-16x42 AO Matte w/ F/C Dot Reticle $256.48
Zeiss 3-9x40 MC CONQUEST Matte Black Riflescope w/Z Plex $406.38

I have considered buying 2 Super Sniper 10x ($299.99) but would like your guys input before dropping a little over half a grand on a pair of glasses.
Like that Wendy's Comercial... "Six Hundred Jr Bacon Cheese Burgers?!" or was that Jack in the box?... Shake that thing.. lol.. Back to the subject!

Are these good choices? which one would be best on a CZ 452 American Hummer (Bolt clearning problem) or Custom Rem 700 .308? both can hit .5" MOA consistantly.
and which one would be best suited for my needs? Thanks !!! 

Edited by fusionstar916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2006 at 08:01
catusbill View Drop Down
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You have listed some very good choices. But, you left out one that deserves a look.

Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14 X 42mm Ballistic Plex. Street price $250-$280 and has dull mat finish that makes it a real nice looking mount.

      
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2006 at 09:47
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I would take the Super Snipers first followed by the Burris.

2 damn good scopes!!!!!!!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2006 at 17:06
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excellent, thanks!  I totally forgot about the burris'
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2006 at 20:40
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Burris is a good choice.  Off hand I'd say that a combination of a 10x Super Sniper and a 4.5-14x42 FFII is a good way to go. 
You may also want to consider SIghtron S2 4-16x42MD.  It can be had for around $350-370 I believe and it has better glass than Fullfield II.

Otherwise, I'd stay away from Weaver V24 and V16.  Weaver's V-line design seems to work a lot better with lower magnification.  V16 and V24 did not impress me at all.  Also Elite 3200's optical quality lags behind the competition as well.

ILya

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2006 at 22:00
fusionstar916 View Drop Down
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Cool, Will order the SS 10x42 as soon as i get my check. I will order one for now and see how it goes. Heading down to my local gun store to check out some other brands in the mean time. oh by the way, does the bushnell elite firefly retical turn black when its no longer glowing after the initial light charge? Thanks for the help so far, you guys are glass gods/ess.


Edit: just called the store.. it closed 5 minutes ago T_T.. I guess i will just order a FullField II for my rimfire varmint Hummer (Burris 4.5-14x42 Fullfield II Rifle Scope Ballistix Plex) with the free spotting scope from SWFA.


Edited by fusionstar916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2006 at 23:35
Sneaky View Drop Down
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Thats the exact scope I am looking at right now, also looking to get the free spotting scope.  I was wondering if anyone has had any personal experience with the 4.5-14x42 and what your thoughts are.  I will be putting it on a 25-.06 that I use for everything, prairie dogs, coyotes, antelope, deer.  So far every review I have read on the Burris FF II has been good but just want the average joe's opinion on them.  Thanks.

Forgot to ask if the reticles are in the first focal length or the second, meaning does the size of the reticle change as you zoom in and out.


Edited by Sneaky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2006 at 00:30
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I just order my 10X42M on Wed. The non-M was O.O.S. but the side focus model was shipped the day I ordered.   I'll chime in with my $.02 after I get it. but I'm confident its 100% as advertised or it wouldn't be coming this way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2006 at 06:04
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Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

I just order my 10X42M on Wed. The non-M was O.O.S. but the side focus model was shipped the day I ordered.   I'll chime in with my $.02 after I get it. but I'm confident its 100% as advertised or it wouldn't be coming this way.

 

I'm right behind ya, Steely.

The Warden says I can get a 10x42 SS non side focus and some Badger rings for our anniversary to put on my beloved Rem. VSLH .308. 

I call her "Black Betty".  She do it real gooood...

The rifle, that is....

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2006 at 10:23
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The  fixed 10X with side focus is an excellent choice.  I would as Koshkin suggested  have one fixed and one variable. and since the $399 price tag didn't run you off I'm going to suggest this for your second scope:

6580 Nikon 5.5-16.5x44 Monarch UCC Riflescope Nikon 5.5-16.5x44 Monarch UCC Riflescope
  • Gloss
  • Nikoplex
  • 1"
  • Adjustable Objective
SWFA: $399.95

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2006 at 23:39
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I did a real close evaluation Friday the sky was clear and bright with the sun at my back.
I used a Burris FF II 4.5-14 X 42mm and my Nikon 2.5-10 X 56mm Monarch Gold.
There was no different in resolution and brightness at 400 yards at a neutral target. Green S-10 pickup sitting in the shade. Used a light meter to measure the intensity of light at occular. Don't ask me the reading, didn't record just made sure it was approximately the same reading (+)(-) 10 %. I was able to read the writing on the door of the truck with both scopes. Now mine you, 400 yards 4" block lettering.

I plan to try a test at sun down just to see how much better the Nikon's 56mm objective pulls in the light.

I realize this is not a scientific study, just what satisfies me the user. It only proves that most rifle scopes will function well with light. It's the super scopes with laboratory glass that produce optimum performance in poor conditions.

One factory representative told me today in Nashville at the NWTF Conference that today's high tech manufacturing equipment is expected to make perfect glass. That his company started with the same glass and the more expensive coating is what improved the quality and increased the price in scopes.

If anyone has anything to add or can further this discussion we can move this somewhere else.


Edited by catusbill
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2006 at 00:28
koshkin View Drop Down
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>>>
 One factory representative told me today in Nashville at the NWTF Conference that today's high tech manufacturing equipment is expected to make perfect glass
>>>

Has this factory representative ever been to a glass shop? where they actually polish glass?

As a general note, to this day, when you need a flat polished glass, the final polishing is done by hand because the machine can not quite do it well enough.

Coatings are not the only difference.  Glass surface quality plays a huge role.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2006 at 18:33
Sneaky View Drop Down
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I''ve been looking for a new scope for about a month now.  Looking to spend no more than $400.  The Burris 4.5-14x42 with the free spotting scope is the deal that catches my eye.  From what I have read and I have learned a ton of stuff in the last week since I just started viewing this site, so I have to thank everyone, that the Burris FF II is a good scope.  I just don't want to regret my choice.  The other question I have is are the reticles in the first or second focal plane?  Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2006 at 21:14
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The Burris is a good deal with the free spotting scope but I think the Nikon is a better scope although Nikon suffers from a lack of reticle choices. The Nikon does have finger adjustable turrets so you can dial in correction for elevation in MOA.   1 moa is 1in at 100yds  1moa is 2in at 200 yds  etc.

6580 Nikon 5.5-16.5x44 Monarch UCC Riflescope Nikon 5.5-16.5x44 Monarch UCC Riflescope
  • Gloss
  • Nikoplex
  • 1"
  • Adjustable Objective
SWFA: $399.95

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2006 at 03:10
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sneaky Sneaky wrote:

I''ve been looking for a new scope for about a month now.  Looking to spend no more than $400.  The Burris 4.5-14x42 with the free spotting scope is the deal that catches my eye.  From what I have read and I have learned a ton of stuff in the last week since I just started viewing this site, so I have to thank everyone, that the Burris FF II is a good scope.  I just don't want to regret my choice.  The other question I have is are the reticles in the first or second focal plane?  Thanks.

 

Sneaky:

The Burris reticle is in the second focal plane. 



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2006 at 23:28
Sneaky View Drop Down
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thanks cheaptrick, in your opinion what do you like better, a fixed reticle or one that changes in size?  I've only had experience with scopes with the reticle in the second plane that don't change size.  Does it give you better accuracy and what is the advantage?  I have learned a ton in the last few days reading as much as i can on this site, all the information has been great!  Only bad thing about the site since I've joined in the last week is that it takes away from the studies a little bit, but then again that's not really a bad thing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2006 at 23:53
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I am sure cheaptrick will chime in on this, but I have a gnawing suspicion that he and I will agree on FFP vs RFP reticles.

Both can be good and bad.  It all depends on your intended usage.

RFP reticles are more likely to change aiming point as you zoom in or out.  That really does not happen with FFP reticle due to where they are in the scope.  However, modern RFP scopes are typically sufficiently well made for that not to be a problem.

FFP reticles remain the same size in relation to the target at all magnificaitons.  Hence, if you plan to do any sort of ranging with the reticle, FFP let's you do it at any magnification without adjusting for the magnification.  With RFP reticle you have to know what magnification you are at and have to remeber (or have it written down) the reticle dimensions at that magnification.

However, FFP reticle appears thick at high magnification and thin at low magnification.  If you plan to shoot small targets (like varmints)  a FFP reticle at high magnification may obscure too much of a target.  Alternatively, at low magnification the reticle may appear a bit too thin to acquitre quickly.  Obviously you do not encounter these problems with a RFP reticle.

What all this boils down to is that tactical shooters who want to be able to range at any magnification and who generally deal with human-sized targets tend to like FFP reticles.

Varmint shooters, who frequently use high magnifications, range with laser rangefinders and shoot at very small targets, tend to prefer RFP reticles.

For big game hunters there is probably no practical difference provided the reticle is sufficiently well designed (read: reputable manufacturer made the scope).

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2006 at 03:07
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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I can't really add to what koshkin posted. Nice work, Brother.

 

For me, a tactical style, long range shoot with a mil dot reticle shooting unknown distances. FFP reticle, everytime.

 

Any more for hunting where I do, in the Carolinas, a RFP duplex reticle is all I need.

I hunt in such a mess of briars and heavy timber that all I need is something FAST (target aquisition) and something that works GOOD in low light.

 

As a matter of fact, I'm even considering going with a Aimpoint or Eotech and mount it on a P rail for my deer rifle next year.  

 

A "long range kill" in my world is around 150 yards.

I'm guessing 75 yards or less is average.

 

I have had both reticle styles and all I can say Sneaky is it depends on your shooting needs, but mostly your pocketbook.

 

FFP reticle scopes have names like US Optics, Schmidt Und Bender, Zeiss and top shelf Swaro's.

If you don't KNOW that you need a FFP scope, you probably don't need it.

 

Theres a place up the road called Hawks Ridge, where guys are shooting out to 1000 yards, maybe more.

They are using Night Force, Loopies, some Burris Black Diamonds.

All RFP scopes and some of the best shooters on the East coast go up there. 

I would bet that FFP scopes make up less than 5% of the BR scopes there.

 

As an aside, Shepard scopes are both RFP and FFP.

 

 

 

 

 

 



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2006 at 08:52
Sneaky View Drop Down
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Thanks guys, that was explained very well.  I live in ND and hunt the plains for everything from prairie dogs, coyotes, antelope and deer.  So 400 yard shots are not all that uncommon. This scope is going on a 25-.06.  I wouldn't have even known about FFP or RFP if i wouldn't have bought a Cabela's Alaskan Guide series scope.  I like the quality and the range finding reticle, but i bought it out of the bargain cave.  When I went to have the scope mounted and leveled the first thing the guy said was Ummm I think you should look at this.  looked the through the scope and the reticle's were cockeyed, something you couldnt tell in the store just by holding it.  Needless to say I was pretty hot because the salesman had told me it was just a display model and had never been used and nothing was wrong with it, got it home took the price tag off the tube and there was two deep scratches in the tube to go along with the goofed up reticles.  So if anyone plans on buying from the bargain cave beware and look the scope over a lot before you buy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2006 at 20:47
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I bought a scope from Cabellas one time too. That was one time to many it was a Leatherwood inliner for musket. After I couldnt get any two sabboted bullets to strike within 4 inches of eachother at 100 yds I got to looking a little closer at the scope and there was visable damage to the internal lenses that you could see from the front. I think they played hockey with it before they sent it to me.
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