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can’t beat a bolt though. fail-safe.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 16:32
Tip69 View Drop Down
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This came up in the rifle scopes forum...... and I wouldn't say I 100% agree with it!

 

I have gone Coyote hunting 4 or 5 times this winter.  First couple of times I carried my BAR in 30-06 using 125 gr. shells........10-15 shots fired....... 0 mis-fires or jams! 

 

The last couple of times I carried my 700 in .223 (fun to shoot).... 10-12 shots fired...JAMMED twice on one coyote and cost me the critter 

 

Even a Bolt will fail sometimes!

 

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 16:56
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

JAMMED twice on one coyote and cost me the critter 

 

 

How did the Remington 700?? "jam", Tip?

 



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 17:01
Tip69 View Drop Down
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It didn't "clear" the first empty round........ it stayed in the magazine which wouldn't let me feed in the next round....... so I shucked it again..... same thing......now mind you..... the coyote is high tailing it out of the county and I'm getting more and more excited......... So I turn the gun upside down and all 3 fall out and I can load a shell!

 

BTW..... my 12 yr old son is blasting away with our BAR .243 with no issues......... other than he can't hit the broad-side of barn yet.... but he's trying 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 17:04
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Got ya!

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 17:35
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

Even a Bolt will fail sometimes!

 

All firearms systems are mechanical in nature and therefore prone to failure. 

 

The challenge therefore, is not to find the system that won't fail on you but rather, which system will involve dealing with the fewest number (and the least catastrophic) of failures possible while still accomplishing its desired/intended purposes.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 17:37
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It is very strange, I have seen this problem before with 700's and what a coincidence it has been only with .223's.

I would say about 5 to 6 similar problems I have observed so far. I have not worked on these rifles myself though to give a good evaluation on what the problem is. I will ask around,I know a guy that might know what is going on,if anything.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 23:18
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U.S. Rifle caliber 30 M-1...8 shots quick!

Worn out 2 bbls and never jammed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 08:39
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This is the purpose of "controlled round feed" bolt actions, where the case rim is grabbed by the bolt immediately when the round strips from the magazine.  CRF actions consist of the Mauser 98, Win 70 classic, Kimber, new Ruger 77 Mk II, Dakota, etc. actions with the long extractor.  These actions also feature a standing ejector, rather than spring actuated plunger ejector, so that the next round in the magazine cannot try to feed until the just fired case is completely ejected.  The Remington and any other action with enclosed bolt face and/or plunger ejector is a push-feed design, where the case rim isn't actually grabbed by the extractor until the bolt is completely closed and the extractor snaps over the rim.  Now, misfeeds are EXTREMELY rare with either bolt action style, but they can happen, which is why many dangerous game hunters, guides and PHs prefer the CRF style action.  The plus side of the push feed action is that an enclosed bolt face is safer in the event of case rupture.  Anything mechanical, no matter how well designed, can fail in certain circumstances.

 

Regardless of action style, a bolt action is far more reliable in the field than any auto, since the bolt action doesn't rely on energy from the fired round to cycle the action, there's less moving parts, and less friction surfaces between moving parts to gum up.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 09:31
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In theory more reliable, but as the initial post poined out, operator problems can tie up a bolt gun and, in this case, it never would have happened had that been a semi-auto. IMO semi-auto malfunctions in clean guns with proper ammo just do not happen. My TC 22, 1917 Remington M8 25 rem, R1 in 300 WM and the aformentioned M-1 have never malfunctioned. The M-1 was adopted in part, because the miltary found an inexperience trooper could be trained quicker to shoot faster with more hits and less malfunctions than the 03'
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 11:58
Tip69 View Drop Down
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SVD.......... think that has something to do with the smallness of the .223 shell?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 12:08
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My 722 222 rem has seen a lot of rapid cycling w/o problems. I'd be looking at magazine issues as push
feed guns are more sensitive to when the shell pops up than a CF action. I'd try wiring one of the magazine spring "folds" together to reduce the "push up". They probably use the same spring for all short rounds, so it has to handle 4 308s with 180 gr bullets... that might be overkill for a 223.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 12:45
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Last week I've seen Steyer Classic Mannlicher in 8x68S that jammed. It happened beacuse of the dirt and grime-and the locking lugs just sticked(don't know to explain better-sorry)Obviously my friend is too lazy for gun cleaning,and that is one of the most abused rifles I've seen-he hunts 5 days a week(it's his job).

It happened after firing,and we couldn't open the bolt-smithy took care of it later.It is a very nice rifle but it needs more attention than a classic 98. Good thing that the target was a rabbit rather than a bear or wild boar.

Now I see why most big,dangerous-game rifles are made around mauser98 system.

 

PS.not that we normally hunt rabbits with 8x68,but we wanted something cooked for dinner and he took his head off-none meat damage

 

Cheers

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 12:46
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well, i have been hunting since i was a young boy and have never had a problem w/ bolt guns.

 

we all have opinions and different experiences here, and i am no exception.

 

i have hunted w/ 700, sako m995 actions, tikka actions, savage actions, and a weatherby action or two.

never had a bad feed. period.

i have had good luck w/ all of my semi-autos except the 7400 and my marlin 22lr.

my remington 1100 can blaze shells all day and never misfire. unlike many other claims about 1100's.

keep in mind we all have had different experiences.

 

and you have obviously had a good one w/ the BAR. like i said, it's a fine weapon.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 13:00
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I have rem 7400 in 30-06-not too long - bought it last year,and haven't had jamming problems(knock on wood).I heard horror stories about it and i was worried,I use it for wild boar brush hunting and jamming could be unpleasant.I just clean the rifle of any dirt that enters and scrub the chamber religiously,after each hunt.

My friend on the other hand bought the same rifle and his is jam-o-matic.

I've also seen BAR-s that jam on a regular basis.

Most 7400 jamming occurs when the chamber is dirty(cases stick to walls and extractor rips the rim).

 

cheers

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 13:10
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If you don't keep it clean you are better off with an unaltered M 98 Mauser
(the kind you cannot load except from the magazine) action or an AK 47.
Those two seem to work under the worst conditions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 13:12
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a 1885 winchester or a ruger #1 may work well too
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 17:03
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If your talking reliablity between the 2 in absolute terms--nothing beats an ak47.

What I prefer for big bad boys. (when a select fire weapon isn't needed)

CRF mod. 70 Express 416

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2007 at 14:10
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now that's a fine weapon.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2007 at 17:42
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Two types of firearms...those that have jammed; those that are going to.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 16:46
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UPDATE........ I can't say the kid can't hit the broad side of a barn anymore!   He got his first 'yote last week.

Damn near put a tear in the old Man's eye!   I'm talking about the older one........ the younger one is quicker,

but he missed....... big brother with the BAR .243 got the job done.  Hopefully next year they can both get

one in the same day....... now that will put one or two in my eyes! 

 

Might have to break down and get new hunting rig..... the ole '77 F-150 is getting pretty beat up.... rusted thru

floor board........ I tell you I'm afraid the new trucks won't be able to hold up.... hitting those wash-outs at

50mph when we put a run on doesn't bode well for the newer guys.

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